Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Megumi Yoshida and Allison Stolz

April 14, 2007

Alison: In high school, was there a difference between like the South Hadley Falls and South Hadley Center and like Granby, and all that stuff like, how did that all work?

Douglas: Oh, right. Yes, there was.

Ruth: Yes, he’s gon tell you (?)

(Laughter)

Douglas: People down the falls thought that the people in the center had the money. So we didn’t really know one another. We did in sports because we could play the teams that were down here at the, when we were in grammar school. They had a Cruise Street School and the Plains School and then we had the Center up there and there was also Woodlawn, which was halfway in between where the, uh, foodmart is there, the Big Y, right around there. And then also, when we went to high school, we would also have Granby students coming here to South Hadley… which we never thought anything of it, I mean we didn’t treat them any differently, unless… even if they lived here in South Hadley, you know, we treated them just as equally as anything… I mean some of my best friends were from Granby. And we used to, in grammar school, we’d play them also, in Granby, in sports.

(Pause)

Linda: But I don’t know how the other two felt, but it was scary for me because I didn’t play sports in grammar school I mean women, you know, girls didn’t have that op… there weren’t sports teams for us. So to come here to this town hall building, for which I came for 8^th grade, when it first became an intermediate school for 7^th and 8^th graders when the new high school was built, it was the first time that I actually was coming together with kids from other sections in town, you know, you no longer were just 20 or 30 students, probably 30 students in your 8^th grade class or whatever. We were coming together, and it was a little scary. 

Douglas: Meeting kids really for the first time.

Linda: Right. From other areas of town, yep. And… if you lived in the Falls… I always thought that the students from the Falls were tough. You know. 

Douglas: Mmhm.

Ruth: I started in the falls!

(Laughter)

Linda: Yes, she did! She did! But the perception was, you know, that the kids from the Falls was tough.. Yeah, and so it was a little scary to be going to school where the kids were tough. But I had, you know, it didn’t… I, I think everyone is different. You know,  I’m a very outgoing person. So it didn’t take me long to make friends with everybody.

Douglas: But that shows you that when you were growing up in your first eight years of school, you sorta stayed where you were. You know, we stayed up in the center, and they stayed down here in the Falls, and there wasn’t any real communication between the two. Back then, you didn’t travel; all you had was a bicycle or something like that. You didn’t have a car, well of course it’s grammar school, you didn’t have a car, but you didn’t have, your folks worked, or something, so you stayed with your group that you were two-three miles or maybe a mile or two away, and that was it. You didn’t travel very far. 

12:25-13:15

Meg: Was there a lot of dating in school?

Linda: Yeah. But nothing like they do today.

Doug: Yeah.

Linda: But, you should ask my aunt that question, because (talking to Ruth) your dating was so much different in high school than even mine. Now, you’re 25 years older than I am. So when you went out on a date, what did you do?

Ruth: I didn’t go on a date.

Linda: Right. 

Ruth: We went with a group, but not one special fellow.

Doug: Not until when? How old were you then, when you dated, finally?

Ruth: Junior or Senior year in high school. But we had a lot of parties, you know, and… friends. 

15:10-16:04

Meg: Were you involved with any activities in school?

Ruth: Yeah, I guess so. 

Linda: You used to talk about, or still talk about, the social clubs.

Ruth: Yeah! I liked that. That was the best part of school.
Linda: Right.

Ruth: You know, we had parties and dances and picnics, and…

Meg: Picnics!

Ruth: Yeah.

Meg: Was that outside of the school?

Ruth: Yeah. 

Linda: Like after school, right?

Ruth: After school. 

Meg: Where would you go?

Ruth: Across the brook. (Laughs)

George: Across the brook?

Linda: The river.

George: Oh, the river?

Ruth: We’d go up the Connecticut River, to Mulley’s Corner, and they have some big fields there, and they had cows, and… it was a big deal.

George: It was a pasture, hmm.

Sports

16:09 

Linda: So, Aunt Ruth, we really never talked about, you said they had sports teams, right? They had football and basketball… and baseball team… but what did they have for girls?

Ruth: We had basketball. And I was gonna be a basketball player. (Pointing) Right here. When you came in, I came three times, and I fell right over there, and I said that’s it! No basketball for me. (Laughter) I didn’t want to break my neck!

Linda: Did they have anything else for girls? For extracurricular activities?

Ruth: This is way back in the 30s.

Linda: I know, I know. I have  a hard time remembering for myself.

Ruth: I don’t know. I don’t remember anything else. Just basketball.

16:50-18:23

Linda: We were talking about this earlier, the three of us: this building was scary. The basement of this building particularly was scary. If you’ve walked through it, yeah, it’s…

Meg: What was down there?

Doug: There were couple of classes down there. And then of course, I don’t know where the girls had their change room, but we had ours down in the basement. It’s all like concrete, you know but showers and… It was like a dungeon down there. I mean, I went for baseball Freshman year, and made it, and that’s where we changed was down in the dungeon, that’s what it felt like.   

Linda: Like some of the basements of some of the dorms!

Doug: But that’s something that’s unusual now is we only had three sports when we went to schools. Baseball, basketball, and football, and that was it. We didn’t have soccer, swimming, golf, and everything else they have now. They still don’t know how lucky they are to choose anything they want. Soccer, I would’ve loved to play soccer, but that wasn’t here either.

18:25-19:07

Linda: Tell us about the classroom… (Very soft, inaudible)

Doug: Oh, okay. Downstairs- what do they have down there now?

Linda: Storage. Oh no, the recreation department.

Doug: The recreation department is down there; I had a class down there. That was where my home room was. And actually, it’s right at eye level. So if you stood up, the windows are right here, at your eye level. So when the class would get over, when the bell would ring to go home, I was sitting right near the windows, and if it was a nice day and the windows were open, I would just climb out the window and (bangs on the table, makes a big noise) woops, excuse me, and be gone! Which was neat! Our teacher, he didn’t care. He was fine. (Laughter)

19:08-21:50

Meg: Were your teachers strict?

Linda: No.

Doug: I don’t remember too many.

Ruth: We had good teachers.

Doug: Some were strict.

Meg: Do you remember your favorite teacher?

Ruth: I had two or three. Ms. Flemming was bookkeeping, Ms. Drisco who was English, and Mr. Foley who was History. I liked both. 

Linda: And we had Mr. Foley 25 years later. I had Mr. Foley, and he still scared me.

Ruth: He was a big man. 

Doug: He was strict. (Linda and Ruth agree fervently)

Ruth: You did what he told you to do.

Linda: But Ms. Drisco was strict too, but a lot of us liked her. She was very good. She was an excellent teacher, but she was very strict.
Ruth: That’s how we learned AB40 (?) or whatever it is. 

Meg: Wow, so the teachers stayed here for a long time, then. 

Linda: They did. 

Doug: Yes, they did. I mean, Mr. Conners was here… for a long time.

Linda: Yes, (Talking to Ruth) because you had Mr. Dan Conners?

Ruth: My homeroom my Freshman year. 

Linda: And he was still in high school when I was there. I didn’t have him, but he was still there. 

Doug: And look at Mr. Spears just died, and he was here for a long time. 

Linda: Did you have Mr. Spears, Aunt Ruth?

Ruth: Nope, he was here but I didn’t have him.

Meg: What about the principal?

(Pause)

Doug: That would change quite a… not, frequently, but

Linda: Oh, I was thinking of The Bulb.

Doug: We had Mr. Stevens… we called him The Bulb.

Meg: What?!

Doug: I have no idea why.

Linda: (Whispers) He had no hair.

Meg: Oh, he had no hair. (Laughing)

Linda: He had no hair, and he was shiny on top. 

Doug: I remember one day, I knew where he lived, and I was helping him work around the house. And he would climb up the stairs to clean out the gutters or something, and he told me to hold the ladder, when I was in high school, and I remember him looking down and saying, “You know, you could make an awful lot of friends right now in school if you just shake this…

Linda: Yep. Who was your principal, Aunt Ruth?

Ruth: Where? In high school?

Linda: In high school.  

Ruth: Mr. Stevens, I guess.

Linda: Well, he was when I was there…
Ruth: He was what’s it called, superintendent. I don’t know Linda, that was way back in 1930.

Linda: I know, I know, we should have brought your yearbook. Charles Miller was superintendent.

Doug: For us. 

Linda: In the 50s and 60s.

21:59-22:20

Meg: What year did you graduate? 

Ruth: From highschool, ‘36. Don’t get old.

Alison: How about you two?

Linda: So I graduated in 1961.

Doug: ’58.

24:10-27:00

Meg: So… I’m interested in the social scene that was here… What were the dances like, especially? 

Ruth: They were great. (Laughter)

Meg: They were held in here (the auditorium), right? Can you talk about how the room was decorated?

Ruth: Usually, they had a committee. Each class was, you know, what…

Linda: You were on the committee! (Laughter) She liked that.

Ruth: And you know, we decorated; and we usually had an orchestra. Sometimes it’d be a little… what do you call them? 

Linda: A band, you mean? 

Ruth: No, it’s… you know, we have them today. You play music on a machine. 

Linda: Yes, a record player?
George: A record player

Ruth: Because you couldn’t afford a band in those days. 

Linda: So Aunt Ruth, would there be crepe paper and balloons?

Ruth: No balloons, we couldn’t afford balloons. 

Linda: Oh!
Ruth: We had crepe paper. That was cheap, I guess. Maybe somebody’s father worked in the mill and could get the crepe paper. 

Linda: Mmhmm.

Ruth: You know, we had good times. We didn’t know any different, so I suppose it was fun.

George: Simple but fun. 

Ruth: Yeah. And everybody, you know, we didn’t have to have a special fellow to dance on, you could dance with a bunch of them, if they asked you. But it was just fun. For me, anyway. 

Meg: Was there a prom?

Ruth: Oh, yes! Junior prom and Senior prom. We all got dressed in ball gowns, and we thought we were pretty nifty.

Meg: (Laughing) But you didn’t have dates even for that?

Ruth: Oh, yes, maybe a fellow would ask you to go, but, you’d come with your friend, you know, and one father would pick up three or four girls, and we’d go and dance and have a good time and we’d  hope he would pick us up and take us home. 

Meg: Did you stay out pretty late?

Ruth: No.

Meg: Oh, no? 

Ruth: (Asking Linda and Doug) Did you?

Doug: No.

Linda: No, I had very strict curfews. I had very strict parents.

Meg: Really. 

Ruth: Stricter than mine?

Linda: Stricter than yours? No, because my father was your father’s son, so that didn’t fall far from the tree, but… No, I think your father was more lenient than my father, because my father tells a lot of stories of being able to get away with a lot of stuff. And maybe that’s why he didn’t let me get away with much stuff, because he knew what he had done. 

27:26-28:10

Doug: Well, what we had after a sports event, say a basketball game, you had sock-ups.

Meg: What is that?

Doug: You just took your shoes off.

Doug: Cause you couldn’t go out on the floor. Cause your shoes would scrape up the floor. We played basketball on it with tennis shoes, basketball shoes. So you had to take your shoes off, and dance in your socks, so they would call them sock-ups. And again, we’d do it to records. Even then. 

Meg: So this was in the late 50s… What kind of music did you dance to then?

Doug: Oh, are you kidding? Rock n’ roll was just getting going then. That was big! 

28:35-30:50

Alison: Do you guys have any children that attended the new high school?

Linda: The new high school, yes, but not this one.

Doug: Because the new one was built in… well, I went there to the new one for 2 years, and I went to 2 in the old one. So that one was built in ‘57, er… ‘56. When I started September ’56, that’s when it was opened. So of course all of our children went to the new school.

Alison: Have you guys been to the new school since, and do the students usually like the new school? 

Linda: Well, we just had our 45^th class reunion there in the fall, and we actually had the reunion dinner at a restaurant, but we went back there Sunday morning for a brunch in the cafeteria that place we used to go to for lunch every day. Then we did a tour of the high school, which has been renovated, since, you know, and been made bigger since we were there. It’s a beautiful building.

Meg: Do you remember if there was a cafeteria here? Because there have been some discrepancies within the interviews.
Linda: I know, see, and I don’t remember that. I thought we ate in our classrooms. I don’t remember coming to a cafeteria to eat.

Doug: There was no cafeteria. You brought your own lunch in a bag or in a pail, whichever you wanted.

Linda: Did you eat in your classroom? Because I thought we ate in our classroom.

Doug: I don’t remember where we ate.

Linda: You were probably outside playing baseball or something.

Doug: Oh not at that time. Grammar school, you had recess, but high school you didn’t have recess. So you only had about 15 minutes or half an hour at the most at lunch time, so you didn’t go outside. I think what we did is we used the big room upstairs. It was a study hall. So it was like two rooms, but it was like one huge one. There was no wall in between, and I think that’s where we’d go up to eat I’m not sure, though. I really don’t. 

31:47

Meg: Did you like high school, in general?

Ruth: I did.

Linda: I did. But we’re social creatures. We didn’t necessarily like studying. (To Ruth) I shouldn’t speak for you, I should speak for myself. I had some subjects that I really liked. But mainly, I liked the socialization.

Ruth: Me too.

Linda: And we already know you didn’t.

33:25-35:35

Meg: Did you have a lot of homework?

Doug: (Asking Linda) Did you?

Linda: I did. I thought I did.

Doug: I’d bring a book home once in a while. 

Meg: (Laughs loud and obnoxiously)

Linda: (Asking Ruth) How about you? Did you get a lot of home work?

Ruth: We had home work, yeah. But I wouldn’t say too much.

Doug: I think you had a chance to do it in school. We had a big study hall up there, and what did we take, about 5 subjects, 6 subjects, maybe? And you had 8 classes, maybe… during the day, so you had time to study. You would study behind another classmate. Say there was a Latin class, and you get the back row, and you would study behind them.  So you had chances to do it in school. 

Meg: I see. How do you think the work load compares to the high school students now, and what they have?
Linda: Oh, I think we had it made. I think high school students today have, it seems to me that they do, they have a heavier work load. Plus they have so many other extracurricular activities that they’re involved in… and plus often times they work, and I think there are a lot of stress on young people today.

Doug: Plus their backpacks are always full. I’d be lucky if I brought two books home. They must have about 5 or 6 books in there.

Meg: But it sounds like you were all pretty busy with sports, and other activities…

Doug: Well, things were much simpler back then.

Meg: How so?

Doug: Well, there weren’t as many things to do, so…

Meg: Less choices?

Doug: Less choices, but you still did them, you know…

Linda: We had a lot more playing with your friends after school. 

Meg: Do you feel that’s advantage? 

Linda: Definitely. It allowed me to be a lot more self-creative, imaginative. Too much of what makes students today is spoon-fed to them, or force-fed or whatever. The video games and the television programs they watch, they don’t get to create things on their own. 

36:00 Cliques and location

39:00-44:00

Meg: Do you feel like the different classes really affect what you did after high school?

Linda: Well you know, it didn’t affect me in life, but it certainly affected the socialization aspect, because, I would say, and this sounds cliquish I guess, but I would say there were more students from the center that went on to college than probably the other areas of town. And part of that is because their parents came from probably a better education, higher education, educated level. So I think the higher your own education is, the more you strive and want for your own children. Plus, at that time, the per capita income of the families was higher in the center area, so they could afford to send their children to college, so it made a bigger difference. So in my Junior year, when I began to take more of the commercial courses, then I began to be in classes with students from other areas of town. 

Meg: Was there tension between the students that were planning to go to college and the people that were planning to work after high school 

Doug: I didn’t notice any tension. I mean, they didn’t look down on me or anything like that. Or if they did, I didn’t care. 

Linda: I don’t think tension is… I wouldn’t say tension, but even today, there exists a classism in South Hadley. As much as we deny it or we want to pretend, it is abating a lot because there are certainly higher priced homes that are being built in other areas of town.

Doug: It used to be farm land, and now, you know, 10 room houses.

Linda: 500 or 600 thousand dollar homes. So they’re not the most expensive homes, they’re not all located in one area of town. But I would still say that this area of town, around town hall, has probably the lowest per capita income of the town, which is still significant.

Doug: Well, we have a lot older homes. You know, the homes are older.

Linda: We have renters in this area, because they’re multi-family homes. And so it’s interesting to me how those issues, 40, 50, 60 years later are here, to some degree, based upon where you live in town. 

Doug: Well, if you lived here all your life, you’d be the same.

Linda: Right.

Meg: Where you aware of those issues when you were in high school?

Linda: Yes, oh very much so. More so than our children were. I think it has diminished with each generation, but it’s still there today.

Doug: Well it’s because kids get around more now. Where we were from the center, and we stayed there. 

Linda: Center school kids only interacted with center school kids. 

Doug: Until you came to high school. 

50:50- 51:45

Meg: What is the most memorable thing about high school?

Ruth: The boys!

Meg: The boys!! What about the boys? 

Ruth: To see if they looked at you and said hello. You know? 

Meg: Did you spend a lot of time…

Ruth: With the boys, no. (Laughter)

Doug: How things have changed. All you wanted to do was to have a boy say hello to you back then. (Laughter, pause) I won’t say what happens now. 

(Ruth is talking at the same time as Doug)
Meg: What?

Ruth: and if they didn’t, you trip them up. Cause they go by, and you know, stick your foot out and… (laughter)

Linda: Get them to notice you that way? 

Ruth: Sure.

Linda: Oh my goodness.

Meg: Sounds like you were a prankster in high school. 

55:26-57:47

Linda: But. No diversity in South Hadley. So when I went to college and had a black woman in my dorm, it was like, “wow”. That was a whole different relationship, cultural experience. So our diversity was more of an economic diversity, it was that sort of thing to get acclimated to. 

Meg: There was no diversity whatsoever?

Doug: Nope.

Linda: None. No. No.

Alison: Did you have any people with handicaps or disabilities when you were in high school?

Linda: I had a classmate who was diabetic, and she would go into diabetic shock, twice, that I would remember in high school. And it was amazing how we all  looked at her differently after that first one. There was obviously something was wrong with her, she was different. But no, I think students who had physical or mental disabilities never went to high school. I’m not even sure if they went on to high school at all.

Ruth: I don’t remember having any kids like that. 

Linda: Well, even the students in Mrs. Smith’s remedial class, how many of them…

Doug: It was called a special class. 

Linda: How many of them went on to high school?

Doug: Well, it depends on how well they did.

Ruth: I don’t think they went on.

Doug: You gotta remember back then too, you had two choices. You either went to high school or you went to a trade school. So if you didn’t like school and if you found it very hard and you figured “well I’ve already stayed back a couple of years in grammar school, I’ll never make it in high school”, they went to trade school to learn a trade, cause it was easier. And I had a couple of my friends do it that way.

Linda: But no one with a physical disability. Certainly no one on a wheel chair, or crutches… 

Doug: They must have had other schools that they went to. We didn’t even think of it, really. 

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Stephanie Maher

Spring 2007

Stephanie: First off, I guess I should ask you what year you graduated?

Bill: 1954

Stephanie: Ok, great. Alright, you know I’ve got these questions here, but I’m very curious about what’s in this…

Bill: Well, I have the class yearbook, which may or may not be of any interest.

Stephanie: Sure.

Bill: And some. . . I even have an old, old, old yearbook from 1929 when my aunt graduated from high school here.

Stephanie: Oh, my gosh, that’s great. And so did you have other family members that graduated…

Bill: My mother and my father.

Stephanie: And so you go back along time…

Bill: A long time…

Stephanie: In South Hadley

Bill: Yeah. Oh, I don’t know how that got in there [looking at a photograph loose in the yearbook].

Stephanie: Is this you?

Bill: Don’t. . . Just turn it over [laughing].

Stephanie: Wow.

Bill: I didn’t know she put it in there. Sorry.

Stephanie: It’s a great picture. [pause, leafing through the yearbook] So were you and you’re, did your wife go here as well?

Bill: No, she went to Holyoke High School.

Stephanie: She did. Did you guys, did you know each other in high school?

Bill: No.

Stephanie: [leafing through the yearbook] And I’m sure you know some of these people, probably, right?

Bill: Yeah, it was a small class.

Stephanie: How many were in your. . .

Bill: Less than a hundred. Probably about eighty-five or ninety.

Stephanie: And in the whole school, do you know, there were probably three hundred?

Bill: ‘Bout three, three-fifty maybe at the most. At the time, we were combined with the town of Granby, so some of my classmates were from Granby, too.

Stephanie: Right. And I’ve actually heard that other people were from Woodlawn as well.

Bill: Woodlawn is part of South Hadley, it’s just a section.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s right. It’s just up where the Stop and Shop is.

Bill: It was always the Falls, Woodlawn, the Plains, and the Center. Mostly by precincts A, B, C, and D.

Stephanie: And you lived in the Center?

Bill: In Woodlawn. I was right on the edge.

Stephanie: So then you probably had to take the bus.

Bill: Yeah.

Stephanie: [leafing through yearbook]. Let’s see what we’ve got. [pause] The principal.

Bill: Donald Stevens. Affectionately referred to as “The Bulb.”

Stephanie: [laughing] “The Bulb?”

Bill: If you look at his dome, you’ll see why.

Stephanie: And I wonder how long he was principal for.

Bill: He was here for quite a while. He was a good man.

Stephanie: Did you get along with most of the administrators and professors?

Bill: I think so. I think so. This one I used to drive crazy, but. . .

Stephanie: Really? What was she? Oh, the French teacher.

Bill: Yes, every time I’d have to recite, she’d say, “There’s another nail in your coffin, Schenker.” [laughing] Dan Connors was a vice principal. He was a good man, too. Good role model.

Stephanie: That’s great. And were you involved in any extra curricular sports or activities?

Bill: [sigh] Well sometimes in intramural football, but not that much. I used to enjoy the outdoors more than anything. [looking at the yearbook] This was one of our better teachers, too.

Stephanie: Let’s see, what was he in. Oh, United States History. Mr. Foley.

Bill: He was a brilliant man in his way. He was a strict disciplinarian. Course everyone feared him. He was about six foot three. And he ruled with an iron hand. But when you met him outside socially, he was a very decent man. And he made you think. He was also head of the Debating Team. I remember one of the first times in class, one of his first questions to us was: “What is the most dangerous weapon in the world?” Of course, we were off the wall with all kinds of things. None of us got the right answer. But we realized when he told us. He said, “The written word. A book.” And he was right. Only we were too dense at the time.

Stephanie: Well, you were young.

Bill: Yes.

Stephanie: I’ve heard from other graduates that this, that the professors here or the teachers here really made the experience an important one, that they were really exceptional.

Bill: They did. I can’t say anything bad about any of them. They were, um. . . Miss Driscoll, for example was an English teacher. . . You know, it was here for you if you wanted it. If you wanted to learn how to write extremely well, she was probably the best instructor and motivator that you could have. If you didn’t come out of here with a solid education, there was something wrong with you, not the school. We all came out of here able to either have a good preparation for college or for life in general. And we really do owe it to the teachers. They were dedicated. Much so more than today. Money was important of course to all of them. They were raising families, too, but it wasn’t the first consideration, the student was. I’d love to go back.

Stephanie: Now you, so, did you have a family then settled here, and did your student, er your, children then go to the new South Hadley High School?

Bill: Yes.

Stephanie: And can you think about differences between your experience and maybe what your children went through, how it changed over time?

Bill: Well, the town grew, so the class sizes grew. And I’m sure teachers didn’t have as much time to spend with individual students as they did in our day. We were much more close-knit back then. We were very loyal to our class.

Stephanie: [pause, leafing through yearbook] Let’s see who else we have here. Somebody signed there. James. . .

Bill: This one? That’s Jim Lochrey. He was a math teacher and I hated math. Mr. Donald Stevens taught algebra, which I was. . . I was a mediocre student at best. I didn’t have the interest, I just wanted to have fun like a lot of people at that time. But Jim Lochrey made math interesting because he taught geometry, and I could apply it to physical things, building, for instance. And his classes were an enjoyable class. I was an “A” student in geometry. Algebra? Forget it. “D.”

Stephanie: So I’m curious then, what did you go on to do after graduating?

Bill: After graduating I went to Holyoke Junior College—that was the name of it at the time, before becoming Holyoke Community College. And again, I was a mediocre student. I had no interest in studying. I worked to put myself through. And I held several jobs. I went to work for New England Tel & Tel, which I stayed at for several years. And then I decided to go into the Service. It was during the beginning of the Vietnam era. I knew sooner or later I’d get called, so I just volunteered for the draft. I wanted to get it over with. And that was an eye-opener. That’s made me realize the value of an education, being in the Service, and how it could open certain doors, prepare you better for life. So thanks to the G.I. Bill, I went back to school, eventually earned a degree. Then I came back here and I stayed with the phone company for a few years. And took the entrance exam for the police, Civil Service exam and passed it, and spent the next thirty-eight years here as a police officer. Quite an experience. [pause] But these people were all good motivators. And you know, I wasn’t that bad a student, but I didn’t realize. I could at least balance a check book. But the simple things. There was a good solid core education that you got here. If you didn’t, shame on you. [pause]

Stephanie: Now do you still stay in contact with people from your class?

Bill: There are some that remained here in town or returned to town. And we do see each other once in a while. We had our fiftieth reunion a few years ago. Had a very good attendance. Again, my wife provided some photos from that. But it was probably, some we hadn’t seen in fifty years. And it was good to see them, and they were happy to be back here. They all had new lives of course. And they all seemed pretty satisfied with the way things had gone.

Stephanie: [back to the yearbook]. So this is your Senior yearbook.

Bill. Yes. This boy was one of the first to die in Vietnam. He was flying supplies over the Himalayas. He was the first student accepted at the Air Force Academy too, in Colorado Springs. He was a good guy.

Stephanie: What a loss. How long were you in Vietnam for?

Bill: I wasn’t in Vietnam. I was in during the era, and I had volunteered to go to, I wanted to go to Europe, to Germany in the worst way. That was my first choice. My second choice was the Far East, and I wound up in Texas, which was he armpit of the world.

Stephanie: That’s not the Far East.

Bill: No. So, we almost did go. We received orders to ship out. We were heading to Austin on a troop train. For some reason, John Kennedy, our orders were cancelled. I was very happy and very grateful.

Stephanie: Yeah, because you’re alive.

Bill: Yeah.

Stephanie: [pause] So one of the things that we’re kind of coming up with that people are talking about is the differences between the people here at school and sort of where they came from. In other words, if you were from the Center then did that mean that you were looked on more favorably, or that you were, that you had kind of class status. I’m just wondering if you have any ideas about class.

Bill: We were all aware of the Mason-Dixon line, we used to call it that, which was really Lyman Street, split the town in half. North and South. For me it was kind of odd because until I was about six years old, I lived on Amherst Road, north of the college. And then when WWII came along, my father went in the Service, and we moved into my grandparents’ home in Woodlawn, which was a small farm. So there was no difference for me. I knew the kids from the Center; I knew the kids from down here, and became friends with both sides. But yes, it was there. We knew it was there, but it didn’t affect us, as much as it did our parents probably. Cause we got along fine, didn’t matter where you were from. In fact, I can’t think of anyone who was even haughty about it. But we were well aware of it, because, you know, the older people won’t let you forget. And now, it’s come back even worse, I think.

Stephanie: Yeah, I was actually going to ask what your children experienced in their high school.

Bill: Well, you know, back in those days, there was a closer town and gown relationship between Mount Holyoke and people in town. We had President Hamm, President Truman, Catell, and we remembered a lot of them because some of them had children who were in our age group who may have gone to private schools, but we still knew them. We used to know Otto Kholer, I mean he was well-known to everyone in town. He was the director of maintenance and what not. And we knew everybody by first name, or at least their second name, their surname, and we’d stop and talk. We would, you know, we’d mix. I don’t think today’s president even knows where Main Street is. And I’m not being, I’m not making fun of her for that. I’m just saying she gives the impression of being cold and a good fund-raiser probably, but the town and gown thing is way below what it should be.

Stephanie: Remind me what was, because now it’s the Commons, across the street from the college, but wasn’t it something different? It was. . . There was a fire. Am I remembering things clearly?

Bill: Well, unfortunately, I know the fire too well. [sigh] It’s a long story, you may not want to hear it.

Stephanie: No, if you want to tell it, I definitely want to hear it.

Bill: Well, it’s embarrassing, but it’s not. . . It’s an honest assessment. Our youngest son was responsible for one of the fires. And unfortunately, I was the one who brought him in to the Fire Marshall because I knew from his actions that he was responsible for it. And I kinda never forgave myself for it. But eventually, time mends everything and. . . He spent eight years of his life in prison as a result. But we’re getting along much better now, and of course hopefully he’s matured to the point, after thousands of dollars for treatment and what not. But it’s one thing about this town. I was embarrassed, ashamed. My wife was hurt badly. But when we came home from his arraignment that day, our driveway was filled with people who supported us. I never forgot it. So I’ve tried to pay them, the townspeople back the best I could by being a decent police officer, police chief, whatever. But anyway, it used to be the. . . There’s a book you would probably be interested in reading, I have a copy at home. It’s called, “You Had To Be There,” by Jack Croak who was about ten years, well not ten years, maybe six years older than I am. And he wrote about our experiences as kids growing up in the Center. And there were some colorful characters. Ed Bunyon and Charlie Ball. They used to run the local A&P, which was a nice place to go in because the aroma of coffee that was just ground up. And there was Hector’s Pool Room, which is just like River City. And there was a woman’s dress shop, The Closet. There was a Filene’s, not Filene, yeah I think there was a Filene’s, too. And the College Inn of course. And they were old, wooden-frame buildings, and the College was going to demolish them anyhow and go through with the, with their plans for The Commons. Some of us liked it, some didn’t. It was change. Just like the new construction up there, at the Common now, some people like it, some don’t. I think it could’ve been done in a wiser manner than it was, but I’m not going to worry about it.

Stephanie: And I’ve heard from, not actually from any graduates, but from people working at Town Hall, Bob Judge and other people that the College Inn, that that was kind of where people both from the college and from the town. . .

Bill: Mixed, yeah.

Stephanie: And get together, and that that doesn’t really exist anymore.

Bill: Paul Grenier was the proprietor or, I don’t know if you’d say he held a franchise at the College Inn, but he did run it, and he was a great one for bringing town and gown together. He’d get the girls. . . He was a great lover of classical music, and a lot of us liked it, too. And anyway, he’d bring us together for meetings, or sometimes we just get together for burgers and relax. It was a nice gathering. And the girls would come over, and they’d study there quite frequently. As I said, we didn’t mix so much with the girls because it was kind of an off limits thing, which is probably good for the girls. But still, the girls were not snobbish in any way at all. And the faculty, we used to be able to sit and talk and discuss things with some members of the faculty. And you can still do it with some of them, but not too many. In fact, I don’t know very many anymore.

Stephanie: I don’t know very many of the faculty that I would feel comfortable sitting and talking with.

Bill: I regret that the closeness has kind of disappeared.

Stephanie: Yeah, that does seem kinda like a big missing piece.

Bill: Do you know Frank DeToma?

Stephanie: No.

Bill: He was an instructor, a professor at the college and [pause] I’m trying to think of his. . . It was in one of the sciences. And he just retired a year ago. But he’s one of the few we can still talk to. You know, he’s joined the local Lion’s Club. He’s active in civic affairs. And he’s a nice, nice guy, and he has arranged a lot of our guest lecturers, speakers and what not. He’s a good example of the way it used to be.

Stephanie: I was actually talking with my academic advisor who’s also, well he’s sort of becoming a friend because he’s one of those few faculty members that I can actually, that I feel comfortable talking to. And he was saying to me that, he’s been at Mount Holyoke for twenty-five years, and that in that time, he’s seen the profession of teaching, of being a professor change drastically. That now teaching is more about being at a college for, you know, five years and then getting. . .

Bill: A resume.

Stephanie: And then moving. So. . .

Bill: What’s his name?

Stephanie: Andrew Lass. He’s in Anthropology.

Bill: No, I don’t think I know him.

Stephanie: But he was remarking to me how he feels that that’s sort of sad, that professors don’t get really integrated into the community because they don’t stick around for long enough. that’s part of the thing.

Bill: I think the community would welcome it.

Stephanie: [continuing to look through the yearbook] Well, I know, we need to get to the “S’s” to get to you. [pause] And this room we’re in right now was the. . .

Bill: The assembly room.

Stephanie: Isn’t this where they used to have the dances and things.

Bill: Yeah, they’d have proms here. And they’d have general assemblies here.

Stephanie: Did you ever go to any dances?

Bill: Oh yeah. Not too many. But I went to a few.

Stephanie: [after finding his picture in the yearbook] Oh, there you are.

Bill: I’m hiding in the corner up there [of the page].

Stephanie: Handsome. That’s a great picture. They’re all great pictures.

Bill: It was a good class, it really was. We were very close-knit. we had our differences of course like anyone would, but for the most part we stuck together.

Stephanie: [remembering the list of questions] I’m supposed to ask some of these questions. I’ve just been kind of. . . Let’s see. Oh, the most, if you can think of a memorable moment or event.

Bill: In school?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Bill: Well, I can remember when someone tried to burn the school down. Got caught. One of our classmates.

Stephanie: Was it just a silly joke or was it serious?

Bill: No, no, in fact, he’d had an argument with Mr. Foley. And it was around one or two in the morning and fortunately the fire was started out here in the hall. One of the officers on patrol spotted it, came in and they were able to stop it in time. Then, they spotted our classmate walking down the street with a gas can. Not too bright. [laugh] That was a memorable time, but not the kind that you want to. . . I guess, well, we had pretty active Glee Club and we put on some productions. Those were memorable times. And of course graduation night was probably the most night of all because we realized we were on our own. Some were quite sad about it. I was not. There were many good times. It’s hard to single any one particular thing out.

Stephanie: Sometimes I’ve seen the graduation procession really, the young women at Mount Holyoke in their gowns, and some of them are absolutely in tears. So it’s very difficult, i think, for some of them. It won’t be hard for me.

Bill: No, I mean, you make friends and you’re gonna miss them. And I think that’s what we realized. We were getting out of school right after Korea and we figured well, this is a good time. And then six years later we’re right smack in the middle of another mess, and. . . Gasoline was twenty cents a gallon. Times were very good. I guess you could call them the Eisenhower years. We knew we were going to miss each other to a certain degree, but we were looking forward to getting out on our own.

Stephanie: And then so as far as socializing with people from the other classes, you know sophomores, juniors, freshmen. . .

Bill: There was a good cross-mix. We got along very well. The freshmen were the ones who were probably ostracized more than anybody, but they were assimilated quickly, believe me. And as I said, Granby was sending its high school students down here at the time and we got along very well.

Stephanie: Were you involved in student council?

Bill: No, no. I used to spend a lot of my free time, as I said, outdoors hiking or fishing or. . . And a few of the others did the same.

Stephanie: Did you go to places locally, just hike around?

Bill: I think we knew every inch of the Mount Holyoke campus, and the mountain range around it. We had some really good times. I don’t know if you’re aware of Lithia Springs? Used to be a beautiful spot, like a paradise up on the mountain behind Gange’s package store. It was, it belonged to water district 1, and it was kind of off-limits, you know, well it was posted and what not but they would allow people to walk without a big problem. And it was far better off when it was posted. Now it’s been sold to the state and it’s turned into a mess. But it used to be a great place for fishing for trout and hiking. We had many a good time up there.

Stephanie: [back to the yearbook, reading] National Forensic League. Wow.

Bill: We had some very brilliant students, too. Our class president, Art Broder, he became a journalist. He’s in Connecticut, in Northwestern Connecticut, and he comes up once in a while to visit.

Stephanie: Librarians, where was the library? Was there a library here?

Bill: The only library I recall is the one on Bradwell Street, and the Gaylord Library in the Center. There was a school library, but it wasn’t much of a one.

Stephanie: I wonder if they had some kind of agreement with the other libraries.

Bill: They may have had a loan arrangement.

Stephanie: Ski club, oh, did you do any skiing in the winter, seeing as you were outdoorsy?

Bill: No, no. I did some hunting, but never any skiing. And I gave that up after the Service, I couldn’t kill anything if I wasn’t going to eat it or use it. No, the only club I was a member of was probably the Glee Club. [pause] It was a close-knit group. We had some great basketball teams in those days.

Stephanie: that’s what I’ve heard, and they played. . .

Bill: Right here. Hoops on either end of this hall. It’s a small gym. I don’t know if anyone ever mentioned any names, but there was a fellow who was a senior when we were freshmen named Lou Conti and he was like a cat. Moved like a cat, he could practically climb the wall and make a basket. He was fantastic. Great teams. And we all showed up for those games. They got all the support, believe me.

Stephanie: So do you think that basketball was more important, more popular than the football team?

Bill: No. I think the football team was important. It wasn’t a big winning football team. It was a very close-knit team. And most of the students supported all of the sports here. We had an excellent coach, his name was Tom Landers, and he was primarily for basketball and then baseball. Well-liked, well-respected. He was the kind of a coach who would play the worst player just to give him a chance to play. At least, if he wasn’t too many points behind he would.

Stephanie: Now did your children participate in any sports at the high school?

Bill: Yes. I would say track was the thing they enjoyed more than anything. We didn’t have track.

Stephanie: Right. It seems like the facilities are so much bigger there.

Bill: Track and football.

Stephanie: [yearbook] Oh look, there’s one of the dances. Harvest Hop.

Bill: Well, there were some good times. And this is, you can tell that this is where they were. There’s the balcony.

Stephanie: And live music [seeing a photo of a jazz quartet].

Bill: Yeah, some of our class played in the band.

Stephanie: [closing the yearbook] Thank you so much for bringing this. Its a real treat.

Bill: Well, it’s my wife’s idea.

Stephanie: Well, thank her for me. [going back to the questionnaire]. So you mentioned the fiftieth year reunion. Have you been to any other ones?

Bill: Yes. I went to the fifth. I missed the tenth because I was in the service. I made the twentieth. I made them mostly at the five-year. I missed the thirtieth or thirty-fifth, but then we got to the fortieth and we made that and then the fiftieth. And we’re already talking about a fifty-fifth, so we’ll see.

Stephanie: So as far as transportation is concerned, you did take the bus, but did you have a car as well?

Bill: Not as a student. Today, everybody has a car. I think it’s wrong, but that’s just me. Although, I can see where kids who have jobs especially after school, and they have to get to work. I can understand that.

Stephanie: It is kind of unfortunate though. It seems a little bit like the Falls here used to be really vibrant, and had lots of people walking on the streets, and now it’s sort of a car culture. We drive everywhere. . .

Bill: Well, my mother grew up just about a block away from here, and we’d come down to visit my grandparents on her side and this whole area, they’d have softball games across the street, popcorn vendors with the old pushcarts, and occasional band concerts. And the same thing happened in the Center, too, you know. But as you said, on a summer evening, especially a Friday evening or a Saturday evening, they’d be sitting on their porches and talking to each other. People don’t talk anymore. I think our generation was very fortunate. I think that this whole country was much closer during WWII. I think we pulled together for a common cause. Every Thursday, I take a group of elderly, older than me [laugh] out for breakfast cause I’m the youngest one, I drive them. And most of them are WWII veterans. And the nice thing is, they don’t say anything about it. Once in a while you gotta pry something out of it. But they all, most of them were in the eighth Air Force, and, you know, they saw some terrible things. And the thing I admire most about them is they went through a lot, and they never bragged about it. They just came home to live. They were the greatest generation. Brokaw was right. [I decided to trim out some personal commentary of mine here]. My father served in the Pacific. He survived it, but he was never the same after that. [pause]

Stephanie: Well, I guess, seems sort of light in comparison, but if you want to take a walk around. . .

Bill: Sure.

Stephanie: We and take a walk and try and see if you remember rooms. [Bill hands me the other ephemera he’s brought with him] What’s this?

Bill: This is a yearbook from 1929. And this was my aunt, Marcel Schenker. And she was a spitfire. She went into teaching. She was, she taught for forty-five years, she became a principal of an elementary school here in town, Woodlawn School. She was devoted to her students, but she knew how to live life, too. She married late in life, and never had any children, but their plan to was to travel eventually, and my uncle, poor guy, died before they got a chance to do it. So, she used to be after my wife and I, “Do it, do it, do it what you can while you can.” And she was right. So we’ve done it.

Stephanie: That must’ve been interesting to go to the same high school as her.

Bill: Yes. And she knew some of the same teachers, like Dan Connors. She was a very good friend of Dan Connors. [pause] No, it’s a small town, you know it’s a microcosm. It’s a small town but it’s big in some ways. It’s got a big heart, it really does.

Stephanie: [looking over at the rest of the papers] And then, let’s see.

Bill: Oh, well, here are some pictures from the fiftieth reunion.

Stephanie: [looking at the photos]. So, these are some old friends of yours.

Bill. Yeah, yeah. That’s my wife Dorothy, unfortunately is in the shadows. And Roland Laramie and his wife Joan. Ray Hopvee and his wife Joan. And this was on the Sunday. It was a three-day reunion. It was great. In fact, I’m very critical of Mount Holyoke. I shouldn’t say it, but I am because I feel that the town does more for the college than the college does for the town. However, we had our reunion there, and it turned out fantastic. I can’t say enough good things about it. And we had breakfast on the terrace on Sunday morning. . . Geez everything. . . On Friday we went on a boat cruise on the river you know down at Brunelle’s marina, came back, had supper. And Saturday night we had dinner at the college, what they did a fantastic job. And then Sunday we went back for brunch. No one was disappointed. But this is the, just some group pictures taken that night and what not. And oh, that’s the old class roster there. And it was interesting just to see the changes, you know. Peter Mireau was a German boy, came to America, and went to high school with us. And this is his wife. Pauline Hoole. [flipping through pictures]. Three good friends, Bob Frye, Rick Meinne, Kevin Kelley, whole bunch of us. [flipping to another page] These are the ones that we lost. [pause, shuffling papers] Yours truly. Nice memories.

Stephanie: It’s wonderful that you guys can all get together again.

Bill: Well, we’re looking forward to a fifty-fifth, and God-willing maybe a sixtieth. Who knows?

Stephanie: It seems like it would be an awful lot to have to orchestrate.

Bill: We had a good committee. There were six of us who worked quite hard on it. And we had some people from your neighborhood. From Oregon, from Washington. Texas, all over the country, really. And Peter, of course. I don’t know where Peter is now. I forgot, but it was good. It was good to see everyone. I guess we were kind of in a pleasant state of shock, you know, after. Especially the ones we had not seen. This is something I had picked out of my wife’s gatherings, and I just thought it might give you an idea of how I feel about the town, and this building. I was asked to speak thirteen or fourteen years ago at a Memorial Day service outside here before I retired. [hands me the speech in written form]

Stephanie: I want to copy it.

Bill: Don’t mind the food stains, the coffee stains. I don’t know why she saves some of this stuff, but she does.

Stephanie: No, this is great. I think this would be really wonderful to have on the recorder, at least because one of the things I’m going to be doing is transcribing everything into written form. Perhaps I can think about how to. . .

Bill: I’m sure we could have a copy made somewhere.

Stephanie: I would love to have a copy. Would that be okay with you?

Bill: Sure. I was proud of that. I meant every word.

Stephanie: I think this would be wonderful to include.

Bill: Don’t worry, I’ll get you a copy, somewhere, somehow. Somewhere, somehow. In fact, I know just the girl. [we stand to go for a tour] Where would you like to begin?

Stephanie: Let’s see how about we take a right.

Bill: Okay. There were town offices in here at the time too. In fact, the town clerk I think was in here. In fact, I’m positive it was here, and the corner room. But we managed to lend. . .

Stephanie: And then you would enter, the students would enter over here?

Bill: Yes. Many of these rooms were classrooms. Directly above us was the study hall, which was a large room which has been partitioned off now. And there was home rooms here. This was one of them. Our math class was where the selectman’s office is now.

Stephanie: Probably not your favorite room in the building.

Bill: Not at all. And down here, the famous Mr. Foley and his history class were off to the right. This used to be a Latin class with Miss Carlson, who was a great teacher. She was a wonderful person. Down here, this used to be what we called the catacombs. Physical ed class, the showers and so forth were down there, and the home economics department. And we called it the catacombs because there was a long hall that would bring along to the other side of the building. And I think the door, I think it’s probably locked off now. And there was another classroom over here. Another room for the selectman’s meeting. And this was finally Maybelle LePrat’s domain, the French teacher. One of the nice things about growing up in a small town is getting to know other people. Sometimes you wish you didn’t know as much as you did, but. . .But as I said, they’ve been so supportive to me over the years that I’ll be always grateful. Again, these were mostly home rooms down here. Upstairs was the study hall, some more classrooms, and our lab, our chemistry lab. If you want to go up, that’s up to you. It’s very similar to here.

Stephanie: Sure, why not? Smells like popcorn all of a sudden.

Bill: Well, downstairs there’s a rest area, let’s say, a break room for the people who were employed here now. I used to be able to make these stairs a lot easier.

Stephanie: I can just imagine the noise of getting out of class and racing down the stairs. . .

Bill: Oh yeah, every fifty minutes. And this was the study hall. You can see they put a wall here to partition it off. And let’s see. This used to be Miss Driscoll’s here, course they partitioned it off too. If you could not write a paragraph or a decent essay after attending her class, there was something wrong with you. Study hall would be pandemonium sometimes, you know, if one of the marshal’s, as we used to call them, would leave pure hell would break loose. Labs were over here on this side. And the science room was over here. And all of this of course, we used to come and watch a lot of the ball games from up here [the balcony] and some of the assemblies. [in the elevator] But the building, I guess it’s been put to good use, really. We were one of the last classes in this building too.

Stephanie: What was the last year?

Bill: I think it was fifty-five was the last year. [exiting elevator] Of course, this is all newly partitioned off, but this used to go under to the stage, where we just came from. And this is all changed. I mean, there was nothing but these corridors going underneath. Now you have the veteran’s agent, and the conservation commission and a few others down here. And the break room.

Stephanie: So, I can see why if there were a bunch of corridors why you would call it the catacombs.

Bill: Those who liked to smoke or sneak a cigarette would come down here, you know. Till they got caught. Now it’s just become a hodge-podge of storage and what not. And this is where we must’ve detected the odor of the popcorn. The recreation department.

Stephanie: So then, showers used to be down here as well?

Bill: Yep. They were down here. Right in there. Now if you followed this it would bring you over to where we, where I said the home economics department was. And civil defense took it over and we had cartons of dried food and all kinds of stuff in there for a while. That was probably a result of the cold war. . .  Showers were nothing to rave about either. But we had some good times.

Stephanie: Now, there weren’t any, was there a cafeteria in here?

Bill: No, not really. Not that I recall. I’m trying to think now. If there was anything, it would’ve been down here cause this is where you would have the concrete floor or the tile floor. A lot of us used to go to the luncheonette over here on Bridge Street, which was called Bernette’s News Room at the time, or pack a lunch. Us farmers. But there might’ve been a small lunch room. I don’t even recall that part of it now that you mention it. [walking back upstairs] Here to the left is, now is where the town clerk is. Tax collector. Again, these were home rooms.

Stephanie: What precisely happens in home room?

Bill: That was where you would leave your personal belongings. And any books that you wanted to leave. You’d have your desk. Course, your desk would be used by someone else during the day, if they were teaching English or whatever.

Stephanie: Now how many children do you have?

Bill: Two.

Stephanie: And are they both still [local]?

Bill: Yes. They’re both still here. One of them is a cook. And the other one is a firefighter EMT. [walking back to the table in the auditorium] You don’t realize the value of an education when you’re that age, or I didn’t till later on. It’s been an interesting life, I can tell you that.

Stephanie: So, I’m curious a little bit about, I realize we’re supposed to be talking about the high school, but, so when you worked for the police department, do you still maintain contact with people that you were working with?

Bill: Yes, yes. Not as much as I used to. Because I’ve been retired for almost eleven years now. And I worked my way up through the ranks and eventually became chief. I’ve had several chances to leave for other police departments or federal jobs, but I just, I wanted my kids to grow up in a small town atmosphere. And again, I felt a close tie to the community, I always have. And I think I always will. Although politics lately leave a lot to be desired.

Stephanie: So then you must be involved in town commissions and that sort of thing.

Bill: Yeah, I’ve been on, was on a charter commission twice to revise our town government. [omission of political discussion involving government structure of the town of South Hadley] I honestly feel that this was a good place to begin, no complaints because when I did get out of the service I, you know, which was an eye-opener, I realized the value of a formal education, so i went back to school on the GI bill. And finally got my bachelor’s degree after six years of going night, part-time and what not, working. . . And after I’d been with the local department for a while, I went to the FBI National Academy for local police officers. And that was a great experience. And through that, I came back here, I could’ve stayed and worked as a clerk in the Washington office, but it wasn’t good for the family at that time. And as I said I had chances to go to other departments, and I didn’t; I stayed put. The FBI Academy did open some doors. I did work for a private security firm part-time. . . Who else could come from a small town and be friend of a king?

Stephanie: Which king?

Bill: King Abdullah of Jordan. He went to Deerfield Academy. He graduated in 1980 from Deerfield Academy. And his father was looking for a security team to cover him while he was here. And I happened to be one of the ones, they called me from the Springfield office. And I said sure, but I can only work weekends. And we became friends, very close friends. By the time he, he also went to Bement School, and he spent six years here. And from here, he went to Sandhurst, Great Britain. And we kept in contact. His father, by the way, was quite a man. He may have been small in stature, but he was really big about everything else. Jordan is the only, Jordan and Egypt are the only two countries with a treaty with Israel. They were forward-thinking, and they’re tired of this mess over there, just as much as you and I would be. But I used to kid Abdullah when he was a senior here, I’d say, he said, “Someday you’re going to come to my country,” and I said yeah, so I can eat goat? And we got along that way because he would come to our home for pizza, and we’d have barbeques, and gave him as much freedom probably Americanized him more than anything. But anyway, in 1993, my wife and I got an envelope with some engraving on it and it was a wedding invitation to his wedding. So, he brought us, he brought twenty-three people from the United States over, and we were the only ones, two from the security group. We spent ten days in Jordan as his guests. And he has since built an Academy for sixth through eighth grades, and his goal was to bring people from other nations in the mid-east and, in fact, all over the world, together, feeling—and this is something we used to talk a lot about a lot when he was here. I’d say, you know, young people have to be taught to hate, so they should be able to be taught to love. And I think that hit home because he wants everyone to be, regardless of their class or background or ethnicity. He wants them to attend this Academy and prep them for secondary school. And it’s beautiful because we went there last July. Again, he sent us a note saying “You’re coming” and I. . .

Stephanie: You can’t really say no to a king.

Bill: No, you can’t. And especially when he’s picking up the tab. So we went with a group from Deerfield Academy and we had another precious week, we didn’t think you could have as exceptional a time as the first time, but we did. We did. And it’s too bad because he was, he was promoting tourism. I mean, Jordan doesn’t have much to offer except olives and great medical research. Way ahead of us. Course they don’t have the FDA to contend with either, everything else. But we have a friend who had cancer, uterine cancer. He volunteered to accept her over there as a patient, but she has a doctor in Boston who was a very capable guy, and he recognized Jordan as being an alternative. But so far she’s doing ok. But that’s the kind of guy Abdullah is. Kind of a man he is. He would like to promote tourism again and it was just catching on before this med-east situation erupted because there’s a lot to see. It’s not just all desert. There are mountains, there’s deserts, there’s Petra, Roman cities Jurosh and all kind of things to see and do, and there’s the Red Sea, Acaba. We saw where Lawrence of Arabia was filmed—Waddi Rum—and you felt like you were there. And also where Harrison Ford filmed the Raider’s of the Lost Ark. It was just fantastic. Sometime, if you wanna be bored, you come to our home. . .

Stephanie: I want to see some pictures!

Bill: We’ve got pictures. We’ve got pictures. [minor omission] I wish we could promote better understanding.

Stephanie: Well, like you’re saying, I think education is really the key to that.

Bill: It is. It’s, I think the tuition is going to be $28,000 a year. And the first class goes in in October of this year. The grounds are beautiful. And he’s setting aside, I think it’s 15% of all tuition for scholarships. In fact, when we were there, he had a lot of people from the inner city of Amman, a lot of kids there, who come from impoverished backgrounds but for like a summer camp, you know. He’s just too good for, too good for the Middle East. That’s why I get. . . I don’t react favorably to people who refer to others as ‘towel-heads’ ‘kikes’ whatever. Just drives me crazy. Because until you walk in their shoes and know what they’ve done and suffered. . . Too many red-necks.

Stephanie: Well, again, it’s a problem of ignorance. [omission of political discussion about the war in Iraq] Thank you so much for letting me copy this [speech], it’s really great.

Bill: Well, it’s just, I thought it might give you a better feeling of my point of view, how I feel for the people in this town.

Stephanie: Now, forgive me if you’ve mentioned it before, but, so what was this for, this speech that you made?

Bill: It was a year or two before I retired. I was, they asked me to speak for the Memorial Day ceremony. And I really didn’t know what I was going to do until I happened to be out here in the corridor one day, and as you go out you will see the names of all the people from WWII who served. And then I thought about the ones who had passed on, my classmate, Val Pork, and the boy referred to here as Huckleberry Finn, Mark Cousma, he was a younger, younger than, much younger than I, but I remember him. I dealt with him as a juvenile. And he was, he was quite a, he was Huckleberry Finn. And he won the Navy Cross, died in the tent, but. . . We have some odd distinctions here in town. Val Pork was one of the first to die, and there’s a young man named David Barney, he was killed within an hour of the Armistice in Korea. A lot of people were affected by it because he was so popular, so well-liked. But there were a lot of people like that all over the country.

Stephanie: Well, it’s great to remember them.

[omission of the end, wherein Bill asks me who I’m going to vote for, and other irrelevant material]

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewers: Sofia Redford

April 3, 2007

Sofia Redford: So I just wanted to begin by asking what class years you were at South Hadley High School

Ruth Thornton: My class year was 1956, the last class that graduated from this, uhh, town hall

Mike Thornton: And I was 1955

SR: Did you guys know each other in high school?

RT:  We were high school sweethearts.

SR: Oh that’s wonderful.

RT: We got to know each other when I was a junior and he was a senior, or just the summer before.

SR: So you both lived then in the area, where did your families live?

RT: My family lived in the Falls, this section, you know, up by the river.  And Mike’s was from South Hadley Center, which is across from Mount Holyoke.  He lived very much in the vicinity.  You know where the Peacock building is now?

SR: Yes

RT: Well, he lived across the street in a small house, there’s a salon there now.

SR: Okay

MT: And the parking lot is where the house was.

RT: Yup, it was a little house, yea.

MT: It’s gone, it burned.

SR: Was that part of when the College Inn burned… oh, that’s a different area, sorry I’m thinking of a different area.

RT: Well, no, no, it wasn’t too far away from all of that happening.  The house was not a part of that burning.

MT: Actually, that house was an annex of a house that is where Chapin auditorium is now.

SR: Oh, okay.

MT: They took the house and I don’t know what happened to the house, but this was an annex and it was four rooms, err, four and a half rooms. And they put it there.

SR: And how long have your families lived in the area?

RT: We were both born her, umm, and umm, my family was here since 1903 and they came from Scotland.  At least, my mother’s family.  My father, umm, was born in Connecticut but he came to with an uncle on the street that my mother lived on, and that’s how he came to be in this area.

SR: My family’s from Scotland too, and we’re hoping to go there this summer.

RT: Oh we went there two years ago, it’s wonderful!  And his family’s been here…

MT: It’s been a long time, I honestly don’t know.  My grandmother, they lived in South Hadley and Granby, so that goes back, how far would you say?

RT: Well he’s the fourth generation, that you know of.  He’s been doing a lot of genealogy work and some of that is getting back further to wherever they all came from.  They did come from Canada, just a little over New York.  Kennsington, Kennsington, Canada.  That where his grandparents, his grandfather came directly from.  But where they came from to Canada, whether it was England, Scotland, or, Ireland, he can’t find out where that is.

MT: But my grandmother lived on the Amherst road and then they moved to Granby and, uhh, I guess she grew up there, as far as I know.

RT: Married somebody from South Hadley.

MT: And married, well, my grandfather lived with his aunt and uncle in Holyoke for a while and then I guess they meet and they ended up in South Hadley.

RT: And to show you kind of how we natives kind of work, our daughter, our oldest daughter, lives in the house that he was born in, on Ferry street, and belonged to his grandparents.  His mother and father lived with the grandparents when he was born.  So, she has owned it for a little over 20 odd years, so she lives in that house to.

SR: That’s great. I was going to ask if you had any children that then went to the new high school here

MT: Four

SR: Four, wow!

MT: And how many grandchildren?

RT: Oh, nine, yea

MT: Well two

RT: We’ve already gotten two, one grandchild is a senior in the high school and we’ve already gotten two of them have already gone through and gone on to college, and we still have several more to come.

SR: That’s wonderful that there’re so many generations going through here.

MT: There’re actually six generations on my grandparent’s side, my grandfather and my grandmother, that… [discussion of family continues]

SR: So you both lived reasonably close to the high school then, because I’ve heard that people came from as far away as Granby.  Was it walking distance?

RT: I was for me, but not him.

MT: I lived in the Center, so there was a bus.

RT: And I walked.

SR: Okay, I heard it mentioned that that made a difference in what after-school activities you could do.  Were either of you on teams or clubs or things of that sort?

MT: No, I couldn’t wait to get home.  You know, I just didn’t get into anything.  That’s why I actually didn’t volunteer for it [the interview], because I didn’t do any of the after school activities or the things that you were supposed to.

RT: Well you were also working.

MT: I did work part time.

RT: I did things but I can’t remember exactly what…

MT: Glee Club.

RT: Glee Club, ummm, Pep Club, umm, I worked in the library here, we sometimes had after school meetings.  And then I was in the chorus.  So I did things that I would stay after for, but then I would walk home.

SR: Yea, I imagine that that must have made a big difference, if you had to take a bus or could walk.

MT: Well yes, exactly, that’s the uh..

RT: However, when Mike here left school, he’d take the bus home and then take it back here and walk all the way to my house.  We walked around town, because of  course we didn’t have a car and all we could do was walk, and then he’d come back down and take the bus back.  That was when we were, well, you were a senior then.

SR: So the bus ran multiple times?

MT: This was a town bus, a street railway bus.

RT: It was like your PVTA now.

SR: Oh, okay, I wasn’t sure if it was a school bus.

MT: We did have school buses, but even our school bus from the Center was a street railway.  But from Granby and other parts of town it was a yellow bus.

RT: And they ran frequently, every 15 minutes or so.  Now you might wait half a day for one.  But the interesting piece about this business of Granby, the Center, the Falls, the Plains, Woodlawn, you probably have heard this, some dynamics around all of us coming together in the high school, all of the elementary schools.  This is the first time we would all have gotten together, where as now they get together in Mosher [sp?], which is third, no second grade.

SR: Oh really?

RT: Kindergarten and first grade in the Plains school and then they go to Mosher, everybody in town, for third grade and up, second grade.  So everybody in town comes together very much earlier than we did.  And we tended, and I think if you interview anybody else you’ll get the same feeling, we tended to stay in our own little groups, you know?  And, there was some dynamics around that, you know, because we all labeled each other in certain ways. Like the Center people were kind of snobbish [looks at Mike and laughs].

SR: So people tended to stay in those groups, even if they mixed in say choir or something like that?

RT: Well for friends, because you were friends from first through eighth grade.  We didn’t have kindergarten when we went to school.

MT: Course, I would say that anybody that played sports, because we played the other schools, you know, the Granby schools and, uh, I think you get to know some of the people, and we didn’t know.  Let’s see, there was the Center, Woodlawn, uh Plains, New Caroo [sp} and the Granby schools, so there’s five schools.

RT: And yet the classes were small.  His class was 62, mine was 80.

SR: Oh wow, yea, so they were small groups.

MT: And, uh, I really didn’t know all the people in my class.

RT: Right, because you only knew the people that you went from first to eighth grade with.  Those were your friends.  But you began to branch out after awhile.

SR: Right, right.  So everyone was in different classes together, did you have a lot of flexibility in picking schedules?  Like I know in high schools now you can pick AP this and AP did, how much did you get to pick, do you remember, between different subjects?

MT: What I remember is, as a freshman, I was in a civics class and there were, I think there were, juniors and seniors in that class too, so I guess you had to take, I don’t remember what they were, but there were certain things that you had to take, if you were in certain courses that you had to take.

RT: I remember that some one came to our eighth grade class, I don’t know if this happened in the Center school, but someone from the high school came to the eighth grade class and gave us the list of classes to take if you were college oriented and if you were commercial oriented, because those were the only two.  And if you were commercial, if you thought you could be going to work after school and not go to college, you took this course of courses.  If you were going to college you took this.

MT: I thought there was three, the general course, commercial, and college.

RT: Oh you’re right, you’re right.  I’m glad I brought you.  There was a general, which was what?  Sort of a mixture?  Or was it a more liberal arts kind of thing?

MT: Well no, but ..

RT: You were prerestricted to those courses, and there weren’t levels.

MT: Well, there were courses there, like civics, that even the college, the commercial, had to take.

RT: So there wasn’t a lot, it was pretty well defined what you had to take.  There weren’t levels like the classes that they have now, like the ah, the ah…

MT: Accelerated

RT: Right, the accelerated, the honors

SR: Right, the AP, all of those other choices.

RT: Right, you all ended in one or the other.

[time looking at the Bicentennial book]

RT: And then I brought both of our yearbooks, which show pretty much the same thing.  Now are class, as I mentioned, was the last class to graduate from this building, so it shows the dream of the new High School.

SR: That’s wonderful.

RT: There was, I remember a lot of animosity about the town because there was this feeling that we were kind of stuck with the old building and the old way of doing things, and the next year, of course things were in the works during my senior year, they’re going to have this new building and all these new facilities, and we didn’t have any of that.

SR: Was the school substantially larger, the one that they built?

RT: Oh yes, because it eventually accommodated classes of up to two, three hundred.

[discussion of location of new school and subsequent additions, mentions throwing away old yearbook and borrowing one from a friend]

SR: I see that people signed them…

RT: This is my friend, her name is Ruth as well, so, and

MT: She’s from Granby.

RT: Yup, she and I became friends when we were seniors, er, freshmen in high school, and we’ve been friends ever since.

SR: Oh that’s wonderful.

RT: Ummm [flipping through yearbook]  But it’s fun to look at them.

[shows pictures from 50^th reunion, discussion of reunion, photos in archives of original class, 15^th reunion, 50^th reunion]

SR: And do most people still live in the area?

RT: No, no, I mean some do.

SR: So a lot came back.

RT: Yea.

MT: I think for this one there was a special motivation.

[transition to walk through]

SR: So I am unfamiliar with the building, we got a little lost trying to find our way around it.  So I don’t know if there was any particular place that you wanted to see, or had a good or bad memory of…

RT: Down here there was a boy’s locker room.  There was never a girl’s locker room because there was not gym for girls, not physical education for girls.

MT: We used to go and hide down here and smoke and then the teachers would come looking for us and we’d beat it.

RT: And wasn’t there a boys coatroom, or locker room down here or something?  And my friend was telling me this morning she remembers we had home ec down here, home economics.  And of course, that was just for girls.  And she said that it was in the basement, and I think that it was, I think that it was in here.  She said “Don’t you remember?  We didn’t want to go too far off course because we’d end up in the boy’s locker room.”

MT: I think it was in here.

RT: Yes, this was the boy’s locker room.

MT: […] But this was part of it, I think the showers were in here.

RT: Of course I never got in here [chuckles]

SR: Haha, yes, uncharted territory.  It seems like the sort of thing, we had senior prank day in high school, and it seems like the sort of thing that would happen on senior prank day.

RT: Well I do remember that one of the big recreational things that happened is that boys would throw other boys into the shower.

MT: Yes, they had toilets in here and, I can’t remember if they had, well, it was open, you could go down to the locker room, and this was how we used to sneak out.  You had doors here and then stairs and a door

RT: Make sure you’re recording this!

MT: We used to go in there and smoke and then teachers came in and would beat us out, because we weren’t supposed to. [laughs]

RT: But Mike, what was the deal with boys throwing other boys into the shower?  That seems like a prank.

MT: Oh, it was a thing we did to freshmen.

RT: But with all their clothes on?

MT: How about the telephone poll?  Is that still there?  We told one of the freshmen to get up there and stay up there.  What time?  We had 11 -12 and we told him to not to come done until 12:30 and the principal of the school came out there and told him to get down but he wouldn’t come down “they told me to stay on.”

SR: So, where did you guys?  Oh, there’s a stairway right here…

MT: This was the town hall, town offices.

SR: So you didn’t spend much time down here.

MT: So this was the door we came in, this and the side door.

SR: What time did school start in the morning?  I feel like it started really early when I was in high school, you know, 7:15 now.

RT; It started early, because we were out by 2:30.  So most of that was town offices.

MT: And that was the principal’s office, and I think that was storage over there, or maybe not, I can’t remember.

RT: Of course there was a dean of girls and a dean of boys. And that may have been there offices over there.

SR: Were the deans friendly, were people afraid to be called down.

RT: They were teachers, you know, they were not just.  They were teachers, the dean of girls was our French teacher, Mabel Pratt.

MT: Now this was the auditorium.

RT: Oh right, we haven’t gone in here.

MT: Also the gym, no hoops up anymore.  They’d set up all the chairs for an assembly but there were basketball hoops here.  I think it was one of the smallest courts around.

RT: So when we had an assembly all the chairs would come down, and then they’d go up, and then the bleachers would come down again.

SR: What sorts of things did you have assemblies for? Did you have them regularly?

RT: Awards kinds of things, extemporaneous kinds of things.  I can remember the extemporaneous awards, they’d have somebody up there, uhhh…

MT: If the principal didn’t like what was going on, or something, he’d gather everybody in here and tell us..

RT: He’d gather everybody, hear ye, hear ye..

SR: Someone mentioned that dances were held in here.

RT: Oh absolutely, sore subject around here.  Actually I met him at a dance, but he wasn’t dancing, he was outside smoking.  But, umm, yea, and we’d decorate for the proms, and, umm, you didn’t get in a car and go anywhere.

MT: Yea that’s right, your prom was right here.

RT: Yup, our freshman reception, our sock-hops, we had sock-hops.  Those were the, you know, Elvis Presley was heard for the first time here. Yea, so we had everything right here, whatever you were going to have was here.  And, of course, there was not a lot of security and things like you’d find now.

MT: But they had, teachers would

RT: Teachers, would come, they would monitor.

MT: But there were no problems, really

RT: Yup, except for people smoking outside.  But that was about the worst you could do

MT: there wasn’t a lot of fights or anything, I think it’s different now.

SR: Were the dances popular?  Did a lot of people come?

RT: Oh yea, as I said he wouldn’t dance, couldn’t dance, doesn’t to this day, but he was hanging out.

SR: He was here anyway.

RT: Walked me home that night. [laughs] I think I was all of 15. [laughs]

SR: So there were different class years at the dances.

RT: Oh yea.  And if it was the Junior/Senior Prom, I mean, but everybody went, freshmen.

SR: Oh okay, they didn’t exclude class years the way they do now.

RT: No, no.  And of course, it was small enough that you could fit everyone in here.  And then they would have things like, Do you remember I was in that production “The Macato” [sp]? , uhh, theater productions and chorus things.  All that was in here.

MT: The seniors liked to pick on the freshmen when they came in.  Juniors and seniors, you know, they’d do a little hazing of one thing or another.  When our class came in, there was about seven, seven of us from the center that were all 6’2’’ or over at the time, they didn’t bother us. [chuckles]

RT: You think that was because of your height.

MT: No, I mean, we were big guys, and most of them were smaller, you know…

RT: [moving out of auditorium and into hall] This was all town I think, town stuff, except for this.

MT: Yea, I remember going in to see Miss Gilligan in here.  She was the uhh, principal’s secretary, nice lady.

RT: Now did we do anything in here?  What did we say this was?
MT: The typing room

RT: The typing room.  Now where was the machine room?

MT: Miss Whittanic [sp] or Mrs. White was there.  Same lady, she got married.

RT: Was this a classroom?  Room two?

MT: Now see this has changed, there used to be a side door here.  You remember that?  So what’s happened, I think that these rooms might be a bit smaller.

RT: I remember a machine room where we had some machines, maybe copiers, right in the middle of, and I sat there and sold candy bars in the middle of lunch hour.  It must have been right in there.  Yea, yea.

MT: But this has been changed.

RT: Yea.  If you needed something mimeographed or something like that you came into the machine room.  And then, as a senior project we sold candy bars during lunchtime.

SR: Did you guys have a lunchroom or did everybody hang out in spots?

RT: Where did we have lunch?

MT: Well we usually beat it down the street too, there was a luncheonette down the street.

RT: I’m wondering if I walked home, did I walk home?  

MT: No, I don’t think so.

SR: Yea, I’m curious, because lunch is one of those times when everyone sits at their tables.

RT:  Yea, that’s true.  So what was in here?
MT: Mr. Bennett, and uhh Algebra was in here.  But it’s changed.  I think there were two doors on it but it seems to me that is looks a bit different.

RT: Yea, it has.  Latin, Latin was here.

MT: Jeff Foley was in the back with U.S. History and Latin was in the front.  But see they’ve changed this.  This, the stairs were always here but there was one or two, let’s see, there might even have been three rooms.  But Ms. Brown was here with English.

RT: And then I also had bookkeeping here somewhere along the line.

MT: I think, what do they have different?

SR: Did you have favorite teachers?

RT: We did, and we had unfavorites.

MT: Well Ms. Brown taught English but I don’t know what else. It seems to be that something’s happened here, there were stairs… I believe this door was here too.

RT: I think that’s the side door that you all came in.

MT: You can still see where the steps would have been, or maybe there’s still an entrance where they can come in from the outside, get into their offices.

RT: There must have been a teacher’s room on this floor too.

MT: I, I remember, it seems to me there was a door here.

RT: If they hadn’t changed this we would have been fine.

SR: Yea, yea, it seems to me like they’ve changed around quite a few things.

MT: But I think this room is the way it was.

RT: And you think Ms. Brown’s English class was here?
MT: Yea

RT: Yup.  And we did have favorites.  And when we get upstairs, when we’re not within hearing distance, I’ll tell you about some favorites and unfavorites.

SR: Excellent.

MT: This here has changed a little bit.  There were two rooms, there was, U.S. History they taught, Bob Pierce taught.

RT: Did they use rooms for different things at different times?

MT: Yea, Bob Pierce taught English.

RT: And he was our class advisor [discussion of Mr. Pierce, who is recently deceased and used to kid them when the two walked around together in the evenings] [walk up the stairs] [discussion of my high school experience]

MT: This could be room fifteen.

SR: That’s a big room.

RT: It’s a huge room, it was the study hall.

MT: They’ve put a partition up.

RT: And that’s where I think you ate.  And that’s where you went for detention at the end of the day, if there was detention.

MT: Study hall.

RT: But because there were such crowded conditions you often had kids, like if you were in a class and there were a few empty seats, they would use them for studying because you couldn’t fit.

SR: So it was crowded in here.

MT: Yes, you couldn’t, you couldn’t.  I wasn’t the greatest student but I couldn’t concentrate.

RT: So they had one huge room, it was a double classroom.  And they had a teacher as a monitor. [discussion of how they’ve partitioned the room now] But anyway, the thing was that the study hall was so crowded during for study period whenever that was that the studying was done behind classes.  So you have had a freshman studying behind your senior economics class, or something like that.  And so everybody got to know each other because of that, at least, they’d remember each other.  So you’re classes kind of melded together.

MT: There was a stairway here.  And I don’t know…

RT: Isn’t that where we came up to room 12? [more discussion of changes]

MT: This is where we had Civics

RT: And Economics, Dan Conners.  And right over her was Ms Driscoll’s class. When I was talking about unfavorite teachers…  She was, oh, she was tough.  And if you had her you suffered through a year.  And I had her twice, my freshman and senior year.  She put me in a closet and made me speak from the closet, because I couldn’t talk loud enough.  And you, at this point, you’re a freshman in high school and you’re embarrassed enough to get and say anything, and to have to speak from a closet was just, was just…

SR: That sounds horrible. 

[Mike begins more discussion of changes to building]

RT: I remember especially, this doesn’t have anything to do with this thing, but I remember especially there were at least seven or eight guys that came from Granby. They were farmers.  They were, you know, they weren’t such hot students and they ended up with her for English.  She made their lives so miserable.

(MT: Miserable.)

RT: Miserable, that they ended up going to trade school in Holyoke, they ended up just leaving school.  Now, I don’t know if that was the only reason.  For me, watching the dynamics in that whole thing I can understand why a kid would not want to stay.

MT: But some of them went on to college and ended up in real good jobs.

RT: She just was not, she was not the kind of teacher.  She was you do it my way or..

MT: That’s funny, I got along with her.

RT: Oh I got along with her, once she got me out of the closet.

[…]

MT: This was General Science and Biology. [discussion of changes]

RT: This is where, you and I used to meet outside of this door.  You would come out of some class and then we walked in here and we talked, looking out over the… [laughs]

[… more discussions of changes… brief discussion of Chemistry and Biology labs (and smell of sulfur… discussion of grandchildren in college]

SR: So would you say overall that you have positive memories of high school?

RT: I would, speaking for myself.

MT: I didn’t do a lot here, and part of it was I wasn’t a great student till I found something I liked.  But I wouldn’t say that I have any bad memories.  There were some teachers I didn’t like but they probably didn’t like me.

RT: I remember my senior year as being really fun.  I loved it, I loved my senior year.  But we didn’t ever have that, we didn’t have a lot of school umm, what do I want to say, school enthusiasm.  Spirit.  We did have a lot of school, although we always, as a school when there was a basketball game everybody was there, we were always behind the teams.  And we had this big pep club, you know, where people would get all…

MT: And they won a couple years in a row, was it the Hampshire league at that time?

RT: But we, yea, there was a lot of school spirit.  I found my senior year really really fun.

[discussion of unsafe nature of football then, poor helmets, concussions and why Mike wouldn’t play… look at yearbook, discuss hair styles].

SR: So did you guys stay together all after high school.

RT: Yup, yup.  We were married, let’s see, Mike graduated in ’55, I graduated in ’56, we were married in ‘57 and our first baby was born in ’58, So you know that’s the way you do things.  That is definitely, uhh, uhh, the way it went.  You just, it was kind of prescribed, you just, that what you did.  You didn’t want to be away from any, didn’t want to break any

[discussion of college, Mike didn’t go because he didn’t want to, Ruth because there was no pressure too, most of the girls in her class didn’t.  Both graduated, got jobs, got married.  Ruth worked at MHC, then got pregnant and stayed home for the next few years.  Returned to HR in MHC, went to Amherst in 1980 until retirement, as well as getting her B.A. at UMass in 1997.  She “just liked learning, liked taking courses.”… discussion of middle names and grandchildren… discussion of Historical Society, project, other interviews, including community connections to other interviewees and potential website]

RT: There is one thing that was interesting, talking about anthropology.  When I came hear, and again, I was in the straight commercial, so of course I took typing, for the very first time, never had a typewriter at home.   And my teacher was pregnant.  Now, you just didn’t do that, you just did not have pregnant teachers and, they were very early on and then out the door they went.  But they allowed her, this was Jean Halburg, who was Jean Newton in the end, she was allowed to stay until she was five months pregnant and then she got too… So I mean, you can see the difference.  And this was just fifty years of, uhh, emancipation, [laughs] or whatever you call it, where as, you weren’t, we teenagers weren’t supposed to see that sort of thing. 

MT: My grandmother graduated from high school here too, in a class of four [chuckles].

SR: Oh wow.

RT: Yea.  Okay!  So, well, call us if you think of anything else.

SR: Thank you very much, and we’ll keep you updated on the progress of the project.

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewers: Thea Youngs and Megumi Yoshida 

Spring 2007

First 1/2 transcribed by Thea Youngs

JW:…98, which is 50 years later and it’s amazing as to what the changes and differences are between years, so if it’s anything that you might want to look at.

MY: so what year did you graduate?

JW: I graduated in 48—1948 And this is the one from 1948 which is my grandson’s, and so we can get into those later, but I just thought if wanted to go through them and look at things it’s really fascinating.

TY: Yeah I can imagine, it’s funny even going through my old yearbooks to see how things changed

JW: So in fifty years there is a lot of change

TY:How long had you and your family lived in S. Hadley or one of the neighboring towns?

JW: I’ve lived in South Hadley just about all of my life, and I’m 77, and my parents before me so we’ve been here a long time. I have two older sisters, and they both went to South Hadley High School, in this same building also.

TY: Wow, so you had a lot of family going to this same school for a long time

MY: Did you like high school?

JW: Oh I loved High School, it was wonderful, it was exciting, you know, getting out of 8^th grade in the Center school, and coming into high school, it was a great experience.

MY: What are some of the good memories you had of high school?

JW: Well I think we met a lot of new friends.  The students from the center, which they call the center, you know, where the college is, never really knew the students that lived in the Falls, because they went to different grammar schools, so we never got to really know kids, even though we were three miles away from each other you never really associated with them or did social things with them. So once we got to high school we had all these wonderful new friends, plus there were students that came from Granby also to the South Hadley High school, so there was a nice group of all new friends that we got acquainted with, and had fun doing that, boys and girls.

TY: So you had a lot of friends from each of the different towns, or areas within S. Hadley?

JW: Yes, I would say the areas within S. Hadley, and Granby, the adjoining town. New friends that we met, and participated with, went to dances with, had classes in school together, so that made it very interesting and fun.

MY: How far away from the School did you live?

JW: Well, do you know where Abbey hall is at Mount Holyoke?

TY: Yeah, I lived there last year…two years ago.

JW: I lived right in that area, so every day I had to get on a school bus, right at the top of the street, and come to here to school.

MY: were you ever late to school?

JW: I can’t recall ever being late. If I missed the bus I suppose I…I don’t know, whether my parent’s would have brought me, but I can’t remember ever being late to school, I really can’t, I don’t know why, I can’t remember.

MY: You were a good student

JW: I don’t know if I got any honors or awards for being present all the time, but I can’t remember ever being late.  If I missed the bus I probably never got there unless someone came home to bring me to school.

TY: Did you attend any reunions after you…the tenth reunion, twenty-fifth reunion?

JW: All of them, I was always on the Reunion committee and we are just about to have our 60^th.

TY/MY:Wow

JW: Course, an awful lot of our classmates are no longer with us, so every year we probably lose five or six classmates, so it’s pretty hard when that happens.

TY: Yeah I can imagine, especially if you still keep in touch with each other and are still close.

MY: Do you keep in touch with a lot of them?

JW: I do, the ones in town in particular, that I see all the time or I’m with all the time, because they still associate with a lot of my class members. The ones that are out of town I don’t really keep in touch with, but when they come to reunions it’s just great seeing everybody and talking about our families and our children and grandchildren, and some of our classmates also have great-grandchildren, which is really great.

TY: What proportion of the class do you think is still in the area? In South Hadley or somewhere in the surrounding area?

JW: Well our class had 86 that graduated. Probably out of the 86 there are maybe 65 of us left, and in town I think there would be just to guess off the top of my head 20 people, others that live in the surrounding areas and some quite the distance.

TY: What sort of things did you do outside of school, in relation to…school activities and things like that?

JW: Like after school? Once we got out?

TY. Mmmhmm

JW: Well I think that some of us who were in scouting…girl scouts probably went to girl scout meetings. A lot of my time I guess was spent probably up at the tennis courts at Mount Holyoke.

TY/MY: Really?

JW: Yeah, and you know probably after school and weather permitting we would go play tennis.  Every year we’d go Ice Skating on upper lake, or lower lake, or wherever it was frozen solid enough to go. A lot of my friends were into horseback riding. So they, you know, were able to do that. Then a lot of us worked after school. I think, you know being, lets see, we graduated in ’48 so the war had been over but a lot of us, the girls in my class anyway, would work for Mount Holyoke Professors.  I worked for two professors, one was Amy Hughes and the other was Alzeta(?) Comstadt, they lived at 28 silver street. And you’d go there after school, not every day after school, but maybe 2 or 3 days a week and they had two German Shepard cat…er two German Shepard dogs  (laughter), and about three cats, so you’d clean the litter boxes of the cats, you’d feed them their food, and they were inside cats so they never went outside, but they had a great enclosed porch where the cats could go out and look at the birds on the porch, or if they had, you know, a sink full of dirty dishes we’d wash their dishes and you know, just do general light housework.  And a lot of the girls in school that lived in the center could do that.  Some of them worked, I think, if they were old enough to work probably went into Holyoke, worked at a store, or a five and ten cent store.  You could work I think when you were sixteen.  So they might have done that or did like waitressing work, at one time the Bookshop Inn at Mount Holyoke served meals, and they had afternoon tea and some of my friends worked for Afternoon Tea at the bookshop Inn at Mount Holyoke, serving tea and toast or things like that.  The boys, I don’t know what they did, they might have, you know worked somewhere, but not having any brothers I don’t know what the boys did…got into trouble (Laughter)…only kidding.  

MY: It sounds like Mount Holyoke was a big part of your everyday life after school. So, was that a hang out place or…

JW: No, and it was just probably if you had connections or you liked Mount Holyoke or you lived near it.  I think the kids that lived down here in the falls, I don’t know what they did after school there, you know the playgrounds were here, they might have come over here and then did some sort of activity, there might have been things going on in their churches that they might have, you know, were active with after school, but I really never came down here after school and did any activities.  You know, we always stayed within walking distance to our houses, and that was why it was probably more involved for me to do things at Mount Holyoke.

MY: Did that affect your friendships at all? Depending on where you lived?

JW: No, except that, you know, you didn’t participate with those that lived down here as much as you would that lived in the center with.  I think the churches had groups, fellowship groups after…certain hours that they had dances and social activities going on in the different churches, dances and parties and stuff like that.  And maybe a lot of the kids, I think, as myself they had, what I think were called…trying to think what it was called…in the Congregational church in the center it was called Christian Education or something and we had activities that we did there. But it didn’t seem like we went out late at night or anything. Like today I think young people, when I see my grand children they…to go out to a movie and come home at 11 o’clock is nothing for them.  I think that we perhaps were always in a lot earlier than they are today.  And not many of us had cars, either.  So that we really couldn’t go any distance unless our parents took us.  

TY: I remember people talking about dances at the high school, was that a part of your social life?

JW: Yes, I think every occasion there was a dance…the Halloween Hop, or the Christmas Ball or the Valentine Dance…I think that was one of the biggest activities we had…really was dancing, in fact in one of these books…I ended up marrying a man from the Falls, who was in the year before me in school…in ’47 he graduated.  So in this book it shows a picture of he and me dancing at one of the dances…yeah, so I mean dances were a big part of our life, dances and sports…not sports for the girls but sports for the boys.  Under each picture in this book it tells what your activities were, and in mine it said swimming and basketball.  No school, no building had an indoor pool. I don’t know where we swam.  (Laughter)  I mean, really, when you think about it you know, Mount Holyoke didn’t have an inside pool, we had, you know, college pond that we swam in in the summer, but when it said I was in swimming, in my freshman year I thought…I think they must have taken us over to Holyoke at the YMCA ‘cause we didn’t have a YWCA.  I think we must have swam over there.  Then it said I played basketball.  I mean, you know, probably we all played in the Gym upstairs in the town hall, that was our basketball court, our dance court, and everything else. But I can’t really remember playing basketball. (Laughter).  There are no pictures in my yearbook of a girls basketball team.

TY: Interesting

JW: Yeah, lots of guys pictures of…you know they were in basketball and football and baseball but no girls pictures of basketball or swimming or any of those things.  So it’s very different.  

TY: So when you used to play tennis up at the college it was just sort of after school and for fun?

JW: Just after school for fun.  Free, you know, we had our own tennis rackets and just would…my two sisters and myself would play a lot. And my (friend???), but mostly I played with my two older sisters.  

TY: Alright, I’m really curious to know how you and your husband met in high school.

JW: Well, he was a year older than me, and I think I met him perhaps in my…must have been my junior year.  And he was an all star athlete…football, basketball, baseball.  And he eventually, after he got out of high school was drafted by the cubs and played for the Chicago cubs.  But that was, you know, before we got married.  But, he was popular and a lot of his friends that near down at the falls here had cars…one guy had a car I guess…his friend Jimmy Sullivan.  So of course having a car they could come up to the center and meet all us gals there and take us for rides in their car so a lot of my friends kind of went out with his friends and, you know we just went places together like movies or came to all the dances at the high school.  And that was kind of how we met.  And then of course when he graduated before me he went on and played with the Chicago Cubs and when I got out of school, out of high school I had planned to go to Boston to be a Dental Hygienist.  And, that summer when I was scheduled to go in the fall, my dad got very ill and I felt I should not leave my mother so I started to work for my dentist in Holyoke, and worked for him for 42 years and never went to school but I was very happy, you know.  I did go to be a dental assistant, you know, but not a hygienist.  And that was a great job, he was really wonderful to work for and he had no children, and he and his wife just sort of…kind of adopted me you know as their child.  Anyway it was a good job.  And probably…I got married in 1951 so there were a few years when my husband was in the service, and played ball, and then, we came back to South Hadley and settled.  

MY: Do you live near your parents?

JW: Now?  Both of my parents have passed away, my mother lived to be 98 but my dad died when he was in his early sixties.  And my mother kind of always lived for most of her life she lived in the house that we lived in which was you know near Abbey at Mount Holyoke.  And then when my dad died they had a summer place out in Pelham, out near Amherst and she kind of converted that to permanent living and lived out there the rest of her life.  But that was only a short jaunt so I was able to see her often.  

MY: What did your parents do for a living?

JW:  Well, actually, when they first came to live in South Hadley, I was born in Detroit Michigan and I think during the time of the depression, because there wasn’t much work around here, I think a lot of people went out to cities and got jobs and my dad worked for Ford Motor Company out there I think or the Dodge Brothers or somebody in the car industry, and then, I think when the depression was over they came to South Hadley and both of them worked for Mount Holyoke.  My mother worked, not when we were really small but then we lived in a Mount Holyoke College house, because  Mount Holyoke was always awfully good, they provided houses for everybody that worked for them which was unbelievable.  And we lived on Park Street, kind of near where the equestrian center is now, our house was taken down and moved, but we lived there and they both worked for Mount Holyoke, my mother worked kind of in the diet department with dieticians you know preparing the students food, and my father worked I don’t know, probably with Maintenance in parts of the…working, parts of where they needed men to help out, and you know, they stayed working for Mount Holyoke for a lot of years and it was very good.  I felt very happy about them working there and being able to have living in a Mount Holyoke house.

TY: Yeah it’s surprising ‘cause it’s not the sort of thing that people do a lot anymore at Mount Holyoke.  I think some professors get some sort of housing thing near the campus but mostly there’s no other housing for any sort of staff.

JW:  Right, I know I could see it as the years…living here and knowing people that worked there I said how great it was to have a Mount Holyoke house to live in to be close and you know there just wasn’t enough housing I guess they…now they’re selling off some of their houses too that they don’t want to be in the real estate business anymore I guess!  But it was a very nice advantage having that, and I think that’s probably why we felt particularly fond of playing tennis there and sometimes going in the music building and playing the piano (laughs).  And they had wonderful carnivals down on lower lake with ice carnivals in the winter.  You know they had fancy skaters coming from all over the world and putting on a wonderful show and they had these big bonfires you know down near the lake and they’d serve hot chocolate to all of the kids and it was just great.  You know, they had music going on and it was just really fun.  And in the summer they had canoes on lower lake to and the lanterns all strung around on the lake so that the girls, the students, in the canoes could…you could kind of see them with the lights on it at night.  It was just fun.  A lot of things going on.  Mount Holyoke always had a wonderful Christmas party in…I call it S H but it’s the dorm right where I…trying to think of the name of it.  Right on college street next to Abbey.  Wilbert?  No not Wilbert?

TY or MY?: Buckland? 

TY: The one that’s attached to Abbey?

JW: No, it’s the, they have administrative offices in there now.

MY: Brigham? Oh Mary Lyon

JW: No no no, the one where the stage is and the balconies and everything.

TY: Chapin?

JW: Chapin.  (Laughter).  Chapin Hall.  Now we had a wonderful Christmas party there every year for all the kids in town.  And every child got a gift.  Of course the population was very small then, but they had you know, Christmas trees and candy and ice cream and Santa Claus came and they just were very good to people in the town.  

TY:  Do you see that as something that’s changed a lot over the years that you’ve been here?

JW:  Yeah, but I think it’s true with everywhere.  It just had to happen because circumstances change and the population is greater and they just can’t do a lot of those things anymore but having the advantage of growing up when all that was growing on was really fun, it was really nice.  

MY:  Ok, well, going back to school…(laughs)

JW: Yes?

MY: Do you remember how the day was organized?  Like your daily life at school?  

JW:  Well, I think when we came in we went to a home room, everybody was assigned a home room.  I think in my freshman year it was a home room and the teacher there was Mr. Foley who also taught history.   And he was very strict but very fair.  Everybody was kind of afraid of him now (Laughter).  But he was a good teacher.  So you went to your homeroom and you kind of got your books out of your desk, ‘cause you had a desk there that was assigned to you where you could keep your books and papers and things and then after the first bell rang I think we always saluted to the flag and did the Pledge Allegiance to the Flag in that room.  There might have been times when we did some sort of a prayer also I think in the morning.  And then the first bell would ring and you’d go to your first class wherever that was, whether it was science or Latin or math or whatever.  And you’d move to another room, stay there for awhile, do your class and move on to your next class, and then there was a lunch period.  One of my sisters remembers having a lunch room somewhere down here.  I don’t ever remember going to a lunch room.  There was not a cafeteria.  They didn’t sell food, they might have sold milk, but you brought, everybody that I know brought their lunch except some of the guys could go over to these little restaurants which were kind of down the street and they’d buy their lunch and probably have a couple of cigarettes or something (laughter) while they were there.  In those days guys smoked kind of regularly and they’d hang around there for awhile and they’d just kind of wander down there, had their lunch and would come back.  But I can never remember going to a lunch room or buying lunch, it was all always you brought your lunch and maybe you bought milk.  After lunch you’d go to the bathroom, or walk around for awhile, not ever probably leaving the building, at least I don’t remember ever leaving the building, other than maybe just walking out on the sidewalks for awhile.  And then coming back and having your afternoon classes, your study hall.  Up on the second floor there was a great room which is now divided into two rooms that was a study hall, it was room 15, and if you had a study period you’d go in there to study.  And then at the end of the day go back to your home room after your last class and take what books you wanted to take home or leave those in your desk.  I don’t remember where we hung our coats.  You know, I don’t remember a coat room or things on the wall and I said to my older sisters I said, “do you remember where you hung your coat?”  And they said, “No”, they didn’t either.  And then a couple of the men that were going to be interviewed asked me, they said, do you remember where you hung your coat, and I said I really don’t.  One of the men said, well there were like five hooks downstairs and  you’d just kind of pile it on those hooks and maybe there’d by five or six guys jackets on one of those hooks and that’s where they hung their coats.  But, I can’t remember doing that.  (Laughter), but in the winter you know we had ski pants and jackets and hats and mittens and I don’t know where you put all that stuff.  

MY: So no Lockers then?

JW: No lockers I never had a locker…even if I was on the basketball team I don’t remember having a locker (laughs).  

MY: Supposedly you were on the basketball team (laughs).

MY: How many classes per day did you have? 

JW: I would think three in the morning and two in the afternoon.  And probably one of those in the course of the day was a study period…maybe did four subjects and a study period.  

TY: And you would study the same subjects most of the year, or were they divided more by semester? 

JW: I think for the whole year we had the same subjects, to my recollection, yeah.  

TY: Did you have any classes that you remember as being your favorite classes there?

JW:  I really liked history, so I think, I should say that Mr. Foley was the history teacher and I took ancient history and I think that you had to take US history and Modern History and I think that was my favorite class.  Other teachers that I was particularly fond of…I was never that great in Math so I can’t say that I liked math that much, I took, you know, algebra and geometry and science was pretty much fun too, we had a man teacher for science and that was fun, ‘cause you did experiments and brought in leaves and bugs and toads and squirrels…little things from outside so that was you know, good too.  I never took things like, which I probably should have taken, like home economics or like a lot of the girls did take home economics just to kind of teach you how to cook and sew and do those things, I never took those.  I did take typing, I felt that was important. Because you had categories of courses like if you took a secretarial course you took typing and shorthand and stuff like that, I took the college course so it was you know, science and math and Latin, French, and things that you could use in a college course.

TY: So there was sort of tracks within the high school? 

JW: Yes, yeah 

MY: What were some of the tracks?

JW:  By tracks you’re asking me what…

TY: I mean so you would take different…I mean there were different sort of divisions of courses that people would take to end up with a lot of different background in one subject…certain areas?

JW: That is correct, yes.  A general course you could probably take most any subjects you liked.  But a business course you would take you know the typing and the shorthand, business math and…but not many languages or not many sciences, in the college course you’d take the languages, the sciences, the things that you needed to take to get into college with so you’re right there were different, you know, as you call them tracks of you would follow all through their four years, I mean you could always change, I suppose if you wanted to, but normally when you, when you went in to high school they’d ask you what your plans are and they’d kind of help you decide what course, what subjects you should take.  We did have guidance counselors, that helped us.  

TY:  I could imagine it being a little difficult as a freshman in high school to be asked, “what are you going to do for the rest of your life?” (Laughter)

JW: yes, very difficult.  Yeah, I think that’s why probably several people changed, or several took…mixed the courses so they would have a better background in what they might want to do.  

MY:  Did you always know that you wanted to become a dentist?

JW: I always had that feeling, yeah that I wanted to do something with teeth. (Laughter) Yeah, I mean I would have loved to go on to hygienist school but that didn’t work out, but I was very happy working for the man that I did, he and his wife were wonderful to me and the forty two years that I worked there was very pleasant.  I mean, I was able to do a lot of things like taking x rays and develop x-rays and we had a laboratory in the office too where we made all of our own prosthetic teeth and made dentures and took impressions and so that it was a great experience for me to learn a lot that I probably didn’t…never would have learned other places.  And did all the bookkeeping and all the billing and stuff so it was, I was the only person in the office that helped him and so it worked out well.  

TY: Yeah, it sounds like it would have been nice to be able to do so many different things.

JW: Rather than cleaning teeth all day, yeah, I thought about that later, I said, gee, would I really want to just clean teeth all day.  I mean this is so much better, I’m in the lab helping him do the prosthetics, I’m making, taking x-rays I’m doing some book work I’m answering the telephone, so that I think it was, it made the day go by really fast.

TY: Do we want to try the tour part now? 

***cut out preparation to move***

JW: I don’t know if there is much down here to look at.   

(Continued in part two, tracks transcribed by Megumi)

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Brittany Gaudette

3/30/07

 Brittany Gaudette: When was the last time you were in the building?

Paul Robillard: Last week.

Agnes Everson: Well it’s our town offices.  But we don’t come down to this part or upstairs. I haven’t been up there for a long time

PR: I paid my taxes, that’s why I was here.

BG: So when you were in South Hadley, which part did you live in?  

PR: Same place I’m living now.

BG: Really?  So you’re living in the same home you grew up in?

PR: Yes, same house.

AG: I’m not, I’m living on Main street. It is only like two blocks over.

BG: Oh, okay, and when did you move there?

AG: 1953. 

BG: Oh wow, I’ve moved a lot as a kid so that is amazing to me.  Anyway, where exactly did you grow up?

PR: 25 South Street, so just right around the corner.

BG: Oh okay, so you were able to just walk to school.

PR: Oh yes. I could get up late in the morning and still go…

BG: Did you hang out with the same people?  Were there lots of neighbors and kids?

AG: Yes. Now we didn’t have a cafeteria in the building. I think there was one, but I think that probably made lunches for the teachers, so we could all run home, have our lunch and run back in 20 minutes.

BG: So just the center kids were able to do that?

AG: Well we had kids from Granby and South Hadley center. They all were bussed, but we all walked to school.

PR: They brought their lunch.

BG: They brought their lunch? Oh, okay.  

PR: And I don’t remember that it had anything to drink…

Anne Root: You sat at your desk. They are sister and brother.

BG: I know, I’m excited about that! So people sat at their desk when they ate?  

AR: That’s what I did.

AG: Yes they did, you stayed in your classroom.

PR: Especially in the winter months.  

AG: I mean we always went home for lunch, we always ran up the hill.  

BG: So the cafeteria, where was it in the school?

AG: It was right here.

PR: Right underneath this room here was where it was and they had class in there at times. You know, Ms. Pearce was uh…

AG: She was a teacher and the home ec. girls.  They took home ec. and they are the ones who made the lunches the teachers ordered, but they weren’t fancy lunches.

BG: What did it look like?  Was it really industrial?  Or like a home kitchen?

AG: No, it looked like a classroom.  

PR: Yeah.  Just a regular classroom.  

BG: Did it have sinks or anything?  A fridge?

PR: Yeah.  Just a regular classroom.  

BG: Was home ec. an elective?  Were you required to take it?

AE: No, I don’t think so. We had college course, business course, and general course.  And I think the general course you took home ec. We probably did in the others but I’m not sure.  

BG: Which classes did you all take?

PR: In my case I liked the easiest classes.  

BG: You liked the easy ones!  And which are the easy ones? 

PR: General.

BG: Did you like classes at all?

PR: I had to go or I had no other choice, so I you know…

BG: What would you have rather been doing?  

PR: I suppose workin’ you know, but there was no work, so you know…

AE: Of course remember, when we graduated war was declared after that, so the topic of conversation in history class with Mr. Foley, he was our history teacher, was all about the war.  Germany and Japan, you know, that was the conversation.

BG: Yeah, I was going to ask you how the war affected your experience here.

PR: Well really what affected us is depression.  We were in the height of depression and there weren’t to many people that were  workin’, probably shouldn’t say that, but a lot of them were not workin.  There was no student having a second job or anything like that they have today.  

AE: And some of the students came back for post graduate because they didn’t have any work for them…

BG: So they just did more school.    

PR: Yep. Oh yeah, a lot of them did that.

BG: So what did people do to try to get a job, did they try or did they just …

AE: There just weren’t any jobs to have.  

PR: I know a few fellas during the summer months, they would go up on the farm you know, and whatever they would do on a farm, I mean.  They would work that way, but I mean having a regular part-time job did not exist when we were going to school.  

AE: Some of them baby-sat after school.

BG: Did people work for family businesses at all?  Did people have shops?

AE: Yeah, we did.  

BG: Yeah?  What was your business?

AE: Well my dad had a store, a grocery store.  It was a mom and pop grocery store. And we worked at it.  

BG: How many years did you did you do that?  Do you do that all through high school?

AE: While we were in school. Then he went in the service.  Well they were all drafted, didn’t have a choice.  

BG: When were you drafted?

PR: 1942.  By that time I had gotten a job at the Springfield Armory down there and I worked there for a while and uh, draft number came up so I went into the service. 

BG: Remind me again which year you graduated?

PR: ’41.  

BG: ’41, okay so you graduated the same year.  How was that being in school with your sibling.  In the same class?  

AE: The teachers didn’t even know we were related.  

BG: Really?!  Wow!

PR: Well, we don’t look a like so that the first thing.  

AE: I remember when I was a senior the math teacher said to me “Are you related to him?” and I says “he’s my brother” “Oh you don’t look like him!”

BG: That’s so funny!  Did you guys hang out with the same friends?  

AE: Well neighborhood, yeah.

PR: Well it isn’t like today where everybody has a car and goes somwheres else. You had to stay in your neighborhood because you had no car.  Your parents had one but that was it!

AE: We didn’t have the run of the car.  And after high school I went to Bay Path and it wasn’t Bay Path College like it is now.  It was strictly a commercial school and it was in Springfield, downtown Springfield. 

BG: What made you decide to do that?

AE: I don’t know, I think I got pushed into it.  

BG: Oh, yeah?  By your family?  Or by necessity?

AE: Well it was a good place to go. I mean a lot of girls and a lot men too got good jobs out of Bay Path.  

BG: What did you study there?  

AE: Bookkeeping, typing, which I had here.  Shorthand which I hated.  Yeah, it was fun, when you look back.  

BG: So you actually had a class in typing and bookkeeping, you said.

AE: Yeah.  

BG: Where was that?

AE: Well we took, here?  It would be the room next to the town hall.  I don’t think its there anymore.

PR: They blocked it up and uh the assessor’s office is there.      

BG: So there was a town hall while you all were in school?

AG: Yes. And the town hall was where we came in [the left side of building].  The treasurer’s office was on one side and the assessor’s office was down in the basement in those days.  And the town clerk was on the other side.  

BG: So where were most of your classes?  Were they interspersed?

PR: Well, the town offices didn’t take up too much room.  Four rooms probably.  

Yeah, because the board of assessors was down in the basement where we came in, and the treasure’s was on one side, the town clerk on the other side.  Did they have a room upstairs?

PR: No, no. The French class was on one side.

AE: And the chemistry department was in the middle.  Bookkeeping department was downstairs in that room that’s gone now, and the typing room was where the treasurer’s is, town clerk.  

BG: What was that like?  Did you interact with the staff at all?

AE: No. We didn’t see them really.

PR: You mean the town?

AE: The town offices, no.  

PR: And they were much older people, they didn’t want to bother us I don’t think.  We probably bothered them more.

AE: And we used the auditorium for gym, that’s where they played basketball.  They really didn’t have gym like they have now.

BG: Yeah, I was going to ask about PE classes.

AE: And uh, they used the park across [the street] for football and baseball.  Ice skating.

BG: Did you play sports at all?

AE: I played basketball, he played baseball.  

BG: Okay, did you also have dances?

AE: Yes, we had proms and dances.

BG: What were those like?

AE: Well….. But our parents could go upstairs [laughs] and sit in the balcony.

PR: And watch. 

AE: And watch the prom!

BG: Oh my gosh! So funny!

PR: Changed a little bit, huh.

BG: Yeah, a little bit! Would you walk over together pr would your parents come afterwards?  

AE: Well, I don’t remember too much.  You know, you would be taken to the prom but if your parents wanted to come and watch, they could go upstairs.

BG: That’s amazing.  Another person we talked to mentioned something about dances being assigned already? And rotating your partners or something? 

AE: Oh, I don’t remember that.

BG: You had to write in a book, write in cards or something?

AE: Oh yeah.

PR: At the prom?  Yes, yeah that’s right.

AE: You had programs, so if someone wanted to dance with you for number three, he would put his name down.  I forgot about that.

BG: How was it usually decorated, the auditorium?

AE: It was well decorated. 

BG: Did it just correspond to the dance theme?

AE: Right, and there was an opening, I don’t know what it’s for, air or something, but they would go between the attic and the roof and they would crawl in there and hang things down through that.  They did a nice job.  I mean none of us were very rich.  

BG: And did you have bands?

AE: We had a band and uh, it wasn’t too old a band.  They didn’t have too many instruments but they, I think we were probably sophomores when they started it.  And we had a band and they would march for memorial day.  And at football games.  But it wasn’t a big band, we had 30 people in it, that’s about it.  We had cheerleaders.

BG: Did you?  Wow.  Did they just like cheer for the football games?  

AE: Oh yeah, and basketball.  We had hot(?) basketball games.  

BG: Somebody else mentioned that they went to UMASS to play?  Did you all?

PR: No.  I wasn’t on the basketball team, I went to the game but I didn’t participate in it.  

AE: Well they won that…whatever that…

PR: Small School Championship.

AE: Small School Championship and we went up to that cage to play and that was a big thing.  

PR: Sure was.

BG: Big deal!

PR: Yeah I know it, huh!  Get out of South Hadley.

BG: So how often did they have games?  Sports?

AG: Well, we had uh,

PR: Well, the basketball was twice a week. Tuesday and Friday night they had a game.  And O don’t know when the girl, they played in the afternoon.  

AE: We played girls you know you could only use half court.

PR: Played girl’s rule.  

AE: Guards played on this side of the court the others played on the other side of the court.  And we didn’t have that many games but we did travel.  We went to Ware, we went to Ludlow.  Um, where else did we go. Maybe Amherst Hopkins Academy.  

PR: Many of the schools around here.

AE: But you know we were very limited beyond the money they sent on us.  We didn’t have a shower or anything, we had a place to change our clothes downstairs and that was our locker room and that was it.  

BG:  Did you have actual lockers?

AE: No, we never got lockers.

PR: The boys did.

BG: The boys got lockers!

PR: And a shower.

AE: But we didn’t.

BG: Interesting.  

PR: Well you know you had to, you go play football on the course, come back up there kind of sweaty and dirty and whatnot so…

BG: Wow, okay.

PR: But the earlier ones, the classes or grades, I mean they didn’t have showers or anything.  

AE: We never had showers.  The room was our locker room, put your clothes there.  

BG: What did you guys do with your stuff all day?  You said this room was homeroom?  Did you just leave your stuff here?

PR: Well as we go in the locker room, that wasn’t a locker room, it was a coat room.  And you hung your coat and hat on a hanger and whatnot and if you had anything extra you would put it in your desk.  A lot of kids with a lunch would leave it right in their desk.  

BG: Okay, so the coat room was downstairs?

PR: No, as we come up the stairs it is on the right hand side.  They may have changed it over, with the offices and whatnot.  I think it’s a computer room right now, I’m not to osure, I think that’s what it is.  

AE: We had books but we didn’t have backpacks like you kids with all your computers.  

BG: Did you have a lot of books that you had to bring?

AE: Yeah, we had books you know…

PR: One book for every subject that you had, you know.  It isn’t like today with kids walking around humpbacked.  

AE: We had a library too.  It was new, I don’t know how many years it had been there, very small as you come in…

PR: Room 15.

AE: No, it was downstairs?

PR: upstairs?

AE: library?

PR at AR: Yes or no?

AR: We didn’t have one when I was here.  There was no library.

AE: You didn’t have a library?

AR: No cafeteria and no library.

BG: What year did you graduate?

AR: ’52.  

PR: Well we were going downgrade! 

BG: So what was the library like?

AE: It was a small room with al books around the shelf.  

PR: It was uh, uh…. This room 15 that I’m talking about it, it is a big room like a double room and the back of it had… books.  Not many, but it did have books.  There was also somebody assigned to look after ‘em.  But you said it didn’t exist.

AR: There were probably more students and they needed the room.

PR:  That could be yeah, yeah.  

AE: We were 108 in our high school.  We were a large class.

PR: And MORE girls.         

BG: Is that good or bad?

PR: Then boys, well, in our case it didn’t matter.  

BG: Was there a lot of dating going on?

AE and PR: Oh yeah.  

PR: Not to the extent that we have today.  That did not exist in our days.  

AE: And there were some girls that always had boyfriends and some that never did.  They were interested in studying maybe?  

BG: Did people date with different classes?

AE: Yes.  

BG: What were the class relations like?  Did people get along, or was it kinda separate?

AE: Oh I don’t know.  There were cliques like there are now, probably not as… but there were always a few.  

BG: What were those cliques like?  What kind of people were they?

PR: I think it occurred more with the girls than it did with the boys.  I think the boys got along together… well there weren’t too many of us first of all so uh….

AE: There were some cliques but not , you know…

PR: The thing is we used to say that the kids from Mount Holyoke area, well , ya know uh, they’re …. Uppity!  You look back on it and uh, its not, I imagine they do it now, they same the same thing, you know those kids from up the center and all that so you know

BG: Yeah, I was going to ask you about Mount Holyoke.

PR: Yeah, very much so.

AE: Well they used to say there was a Mason Dixon line.  Limus street (sp?) was Mason Dixon line. But I don’t remember that much about it.  But there it was always said there was a Mason Dixon line.  Kids over there are better than the kids over here.  Well we had good kids here and we had good kids there so.  Bad ones here and bad ones there. 

BG: Were there any interactions or were they just stereotypes?  

AE: It was just cliques.

PR: And you know they didn’t get into fights or anything like that.  It was just the kids talking between uh. 

AE: But I think on the whole most kids got along.  And of course Granby high school kids came to South Hadley.  And uh, there were some real nice kids that came from Granby.  We thought that that was a long ride that they had to take the bus to Granby. And it was.

BG: So, did they just kinda…

AE: Well, they mingled with us, you didn’t know.

BG: Did anybody hang out in specific spots in the high school?  Like were people known for hanging out in the back or the front, like different groups?

AE: No I don’t remember that but there was a luncheon around the corner and everybody went to Mary’s Kitchen.

PR: Or Doogan’s.

AE: And Mary’s Kitchen.  But that was the big thing.  After a ball game, it was Mary’s kitchen.  

BG : And where was that exactly?

AE: Where the bridge is now, where you come off the bridge.  The buildings gone now.  

BG: What kind of food did they serve?

AE: Luncheonette.  

PR: Ice cream sandwiches and things like that. Nothing….

BG: Did they have a soda jerk?

AE: A what?  

BG: A soda jerk.  Like where they make shakes…

PR: Uh, they did it at Cowan’s.  There was somebody in there to make, uh a bar you know.  

AE: Yeah, they would make ice cream or sodas.

PR: And farther down at Conti and Fido’s.

AE: There was another place down by the Catholic Church, that was another place. And Jack Fords.  That was a hang out for kids.

BG: Did you go often?

PR: No we lived too close, we had to go home.  

BG: SO what did you do after school? Did you have extracurricular stuff? What did you do for fun?

PR: Well in our case we went home and there was always something to do at home.  

BG: Chores? 

PR: Yeah.

AE: There were things going on at school.  If you … I don’t remember what we did, I mean there were different clubs if you wanted to stay.  And when you got older they had the Spotlight.  That was that newspaper they put up.  And there were different organizations that uh… The debating team was very active, I never went out for that.  

BG: Did you want to do those things, or you had to go home?

AE: No, we could have stayed. We had the French Club.  No, our parents didn’t make us go home if we had something to do.  

MZ0000012: 21:00

(Talking to Ann Root about stores)

 BG: Did you all have any school traditions?  

PR: School traditions?  You’re really taxing our minds here right now.  

AE: Well we were loyal to our teams.

BG: Were you?

AE: Yeah, baseball, basketball, football.  You know, very loyal to that.  We had class plays, we were loyal to that too, we went to see them.  Um, I don’t remember anything else.  

BG: Were there a lot of plays?

AE: Of we had one every year.  And we had Glee Club. 

BG: Would they perform in the auditorium here?

AE: Everything was in the town hall.  Busy place.

BG: Was it the center of town?  

PR: Yes, more or less.  

AE: And at a basketball game, they would really pack ‘em in.  They felt as if you were hanging over.  And they put bleachers on the stage and people sat there and sit on the side a little bit but not much.  It was very crowded.

BG: So people, for the basketball games they were in the balcony, on the stage…

PR: And underneath the balcony.  

AE: They really crammed em in.  

BG: Sounds like it.

PR: It didn’t take very many to get in there.  Because it was small you know.  

AE: And of course 65 years ago, the town wasn’t like it is now.  

BG: How has it changed?

AE: It was a lot smaller.  You knew everybody.  You knew everyone in your class and you knew the classes ahead of you or behind you.  And I don’t think kids do that now.  There are too many kids in the schools, they are too spread out.

BG: What about reunions?  Have you kept in touch with some of you classmates through the years?

PR: Oh my yes.  They have a reunion every three months [talking about sister]!

AE: We had our 65^th, I should have brought the picture.   We were 19 of our class.  

PR: Classmates.

AE: Some didn’t come that lived in town and we had outsiders, but we’ve lost a lot of our members.

PR: Three boys showed up. 
BG: Three boys showed up.

PR: Yep, I was one of them.  

AE: One came from New Hampshire.  But we’ve had very good response.  I think once you’ve reached your 40^th reunion, you don’t care who you are or what you are, you went to school and your friends and that’s it.  We found that out yeah.       

BG: So you’ve had them every three months….

AE: No. [laughs].  

BG: Do you coordinate them?  

AE: Yes, and some other girls, and we had a couple fellas too worked at it. We had a good one at out 25^th and 35^th was very good.  We had a 40^th and then we had a 50^th that was very good and now of course a lot of them are gone or they can’t come.  But yes we keep in touch.  We’ve got one from Florida that calls me all the time. 

BG: Did the majority of your class stay in South Hadley?

AE: I would say, I would say maybe half.

PR: Half.  Some girls got married and moved away and some fellas too.  I would say maybe half of them are around, maybe not necessarily in South Hadley but in Granby, like around.  

BG: What did most people do after school?  Did they join the military or get married?  

AE: Well most the fellas went into the service.

PR: HAD to go in.  Had to go in.  Had no choice, whereas the girls..

AE: We had some girls that went into the Waves.  But most of them got jobs, quite a few of them went to college after and have been successful.  Most girls got jobs in offices… I don’t know if anyone went into retail in those days.  

BG: Yeah I think that might be a new thing.  The service sector is getting really big recently.

AE: A lot of girls went into office work, secretarial, or whatever.  Married.  

BG: That makes sense.  Were there any specific memories of teachers or of any students in particular that stick out in your mind?

(Repeat question)

AE: Yeah, we had good memories of some of our teachers.  

BG: What are some of those?

AE: Some of us have been in touch with our teachers.  Our reunions we have invited the teachers, and uh, we still have one teachers, Janet Snyder, Janet Robert Snyder.  She got married the year we graduated.  

PR: In fact one of them just died last week.  She was well into her.. 90’s?

AE: She was 90 years old.  A graduate of Mount Holyoke.  

BG: Oh, okay.  

AE: Brilliant girl.

BG: Were there a lot of Mount Holyoke teachers?

AG: Girls that went to Mount Holyoke?  Yes.  It would probably be 5 or 6 out of a class. Of course in those days, they went on scholarship.  If you were a resident of South Hadley.  You couldn’t live there, you were a day student.  But they paid their tuition.  

BG: How many students eventually went to Mount Holyoke out of your class?

AE: I think it was 5.  Most of those girls didn’t come back to South Hadley.  I can’t remember who, but a few.  

BG: Were there any teachers that you really didn’t like?  That you were like “oh, gosh!”

AE: That we were afraid of maybe?  Yes!  Mr. Foley.  

BG: What did Mr. Foley teach? 

AE: He was a history teacher.  And he was an excellent teacher, but he was very stern and he would stand outside of that door when you would walk by, you know, until his class got in and he would just look at all of us.  

PR: First of all he was a big man, you know, and I don’t think he cracked a smile in all the time that uh… but he was a good teacher.

AE: Oh yes!

PR: A history teacher.

AE: He knew his stuff!

PR: We liked him for that.

BG: Was he the big one that you all were afraid of?  Were there any others?

AE: No.  Well, I don’t know, no you look back and you think…

BG: Oh!  Okay!

PR: You know you look at some of them that were very easy and in fact one of them got demoted on account of that.  She was too easy and especially the boys got away with a lot of things you look back on it and it should have never happened.  But it did happen, didn’t know any better.

BG: Yeah… um, let’s see… did you go on any fieldtrips?

PR: I don’t remember ever going on a field trip!  I think the class picnic was the first time I ever went on a…..

AE: We went to Ben Fall park.

BG: I’m sorry, which park?

AE: Ben Fall, in Northampton.

PR: Yeah, the one in Northampton.  It is about…..

AE: And we were bussed too.

PR: Oh yeah, that was the first time I ever got on a bus! A school bus, yeah!

BG: What year was that?

PR: ’41.

BG: That was your senior year. Okay…

AE: But I don’t think we had field trips.

PR to AR: Did you have em?

AR: No I don’t think so.

BG: Okay, wow. 

AE: Remember they were depression years and the town didn’t have a lot of money.  

PR: Now they go to China!

BG: No kidding!

PR: Yeah, they’ve got a group going to China.

BG: From the new high school?

PR: From the new high school, yea.  The school board gave them permission to go on a cruise where?

AE: The band is going to go on a cruise in 2008.  

BG: So did either of you have kids that went to the high school?

(question repeated)

PR: Yeah, both of us, a boy and a girl.  And she had…

AE: I had 4 that graduated from South Hadley high school.  

BG: Did their stories differ from yours a lot?

(talk about kids)

BG: Do you remember your first day at this high school?

AE: Yeah, I think I do.

PR: In this room. 

BG: Really! What do you remember about it?

PR: Not very much I must say. It was Ms. Bachelor (sp?), she was the homeroom…

AE: No, Mrs. Salis (again sp?)

PR: Salis, Salis…. Yeah I guess it was come to think of it.

AE: Of course it was, we knew most of the kids.  Some came from the center school, and woodlawns go… it was new, different hours.  See, I didn’t go to grammar school here, he did though, but I didn’t.

BG: Where did you go?

AE: I went to a school in St. Johnsberry, Vermont, I went to boarding school, and uh, but I knew most of the kids.  It was different, different hours, we got out at 2 which we thought was great.  

BG: How long were you in boarding school in Vermont?

AE: 7^th  and 8^th grade, St. Johnsbury, Vermont.  

BG: What made you come back to South Hadley?

AE: Well, I was told that of I started my freshman year up there I would have to stay 4.  And  decided I wanted to be in South Hadley.  

BG: I don’t blame you. What about graduation?  DO you remember anything special at graduation?  

AE: Well we had class night at Hotel Northampton.  Which you know, we thought was kinda classy and nice.  And um, well we graduated, graduation was held at Mount Holyoke.  

AE: And I can remember Eleanor Roosevelt came and she was the speaker at Mount Holyoke and we were seniors in high school and our, Mr. Connis, our assistant principle, well I think he was a teacher at South Hadley High and he told us seniors that if we wanted to go there would be transportation.  So we went up to listen, I mean that was quite a thing.  And I can’t remember what she spoke about, but all I can remember is that she had a red dress on.  

BG: So where was that held?  Do you remember on campus?

PR: Yeah.  

AE: Same place we graduate, same building.  

PR: Was it Rockefeller?  

BG: Chapin.

PR: Chapin, yes.  So what was your graduation like?  Did you go over there all together?  Or did you get ready here?

PR: No, your parents took you up there.  

AE: Yesh , we didn’t have cars.

PR: No.  

BG: Did you have bikes?

AE and PR: Oh yeah.  

PR: I don’t think there were any boys in my class that had a car.  I mean you know parents had cars  and uh, 

AE: And after graduation ceremony, most of them went home and parents had parties for them and they had family gatherings at their homes.  

BG: Did you miss high school at all after you graduated?

AE: Yes.  

PR shakes head.  BG giggles. BG: No not all at?

PR: No.  

AE: I thought it was fun.  

BG: Did you like the school work, like the academic part of it?

AE: Well, I wasn’t the best student but I did what I had to. Nothing extra.

BG: Oh, did you have a nurse’s office?

PR: No, I don’t think there was a nurse’s office or anything, no. 

AE: But there was a community nurse, Lavelle (sp?).  Now I don’t know if she, she didn’t have an office here, but they would come, the doctors would examine us, a dentist, and there were two doctors that used to come.  Maybe three.  Dr. Wheelan, Dr. Doonin, Dr, Cranin, and it was for TB shots.  We all had to go through and have TB shots.  Yeah, they must have gone in the auditorium, I don’t remember where they went.
BG: So that was like the whole school.

AE: Yep. The whole school go through, that’s all I remember, but as far as having a nurse in the building, no I don’t think so.  

PR: And the lower grades they didn’t have anything either.

(Britt gives story about her school)

PR: Well in our case yes, if you didn’t feel good you’d go home.  

AE: Most parents were home, at least one parent was home if a person was sick.  Now you know a lot of times they don’t have anybody home.  

BG: What was your principle like?  You mentioned your  vice principle.  

AE: The principle was Donald B. Stevens.  He was okay.  The son was a year ahead of us, his other son was a year behind us.  And uh, he did a lot of talking.  

BG: Did he?!  Did you ever go to his office?

AE: I never did.  

PR: I don’t remember ever going to his office.  

BG: That’s good.

PR: Well you know, you can see we weren’t very active.  I mean there were some that did go and were called into the office.  It didn’t occur too often. 

AE: We did have a um, her name was Ms. Cross and if you were sick, she was, I don’t know she was the assistant or dean of girls or something, and if you were sick you would go into her office and see that you got home.  That was the only medical.  

BG: Were there a lot of administrative people at the school?

AE: No, 17.  

BG: 17?

AE: That was what, teachers and principle.  17 or 18, and we had one secretary.  And that was about it.  

BG: And were they in the principles office, or, where were they in the building?

PR: Who was that?

BG: Um, just the principle and…

AE: Yeah, the principle had an office and Ms. Cross had an office.  

PR: And Ms. Sophie…

AE: She was his secretary.  

PR: She was his secretary but she didn’t have a special office or anything like that.  Our space was kinda limited in this building.  

AE: It was crowded. 

Bg: I can imagine, with town hall and everything.  

AE: But we were kinda separated from, the only way you could get into the Town Hall was there was a door from one classroom you go in the auditorium, but as far as the upstairs, you didn’t use that side at all, because the chemistry department was here and the other office was the town office.  And then there was the French department.  But we didn’t really… go into the town Hall very often.  And we weren’t supposed to.

BG: What would happen if you did?  

AE: I don’t know.

BG: You didn’t try?

PR: No.  

BG:  Were there any smells that the building had?  Like if you smelled something and thought oh, high school.  

AE: No, chemistry department probably.  Yeah, that had an odor quite often.  But I don’t uh, we had a biology class in the basement on the other side and that was you know, biology, you did get odors from whatever you were working on,

PR: The big thing as dissecting a frog.  That was a big thing for a whole year.  

BG: You did that for a whole year?  

PR: Oh, no no!  

BG: Okay, I was like whoa!  What did you do in between classes?  Would you go straight to your class or did you kinda mingle?  

AE: Well you went from one class to the other,  you didn’t have too much time to visit.

PR: What do they do now?

BG: They kinda hang out in the hallway….

PR: Between classes?

BG: Yeah.

PR: Well how much time do they have?

BG: 10. 15 minutes maybe.

PR: Oh we didn’t have all that ,the bell would ring and  you had just so many minutes to uh, yeah.  

BG: Yeah. Its definitely a big social time.  

PR: It is?

BG: I was homechooled personally, so I don’t totally know how it works….

(getting ready for tour)

MZ0000013:  2: 35

AE: This was the cafeteria down here.

AR: We didn’t have any.  

AE: Do you remember that?

AR: That’s where we kept out coats.  

AE: Oh yeah, no not us. 

PR: No we didn’t have that.   

AE: You know what, the girls basement was down here.  The  only one , if you are up on the 3^rd floor. 2^nd floor, whatever,  and you had to go to the bathroom, you would have to come all the way down here.  

BG: That was the only girl’s bathroom?

AR: That was it.  

AE: Wasn’t there one underneath over here.  And of course it got changed from one class to another.  Your class was a lot bigger than ours, was it?

AR: No, 87.

AE: That’s all you had?! I know they said we had a big class, well you know it was depression.  And of course a lot of kids came back for post-graduate.  They didn’t know what to do with themselves so they came back.  

BG: So they had post-graduate with the high school?

AE: Yep. 

BG: Okay, I didn’t realize that.

AE: That was room 2 and that was room 1.  Well that used to be room 1 and this was room two. That’s where we had math with Bosworth.  He was gone by the time you came.  He went to Holyoke High.  And Mrs. Hale. She was the only married teacher because they didn’t allow married, and she and her husband had died and they finally granted her permission.

PR: And she was an elderly woman too. Well, I considered her elderly.

AE: We called her Grandma Hale and she had a class right here and she was an English teacher.   Now did you have Annie Driscoe?  She was a good teacher though.  

AR: Scary though.

AE: She really was, but she was strict.  She called it like, but she was a very great teacher.  

MZ0000016: 1: 18

And you know this building was a little modified when we were in school, they had a flood in here.  This was all flooded, right up above the windows.  They did some work on it at the time we were in school.  

BG: So it flooded which year?

AE: 1936.  

PR: 1936 and ’38. 

 (looking at rooms)

MZ0000017: 0:48

(taking about which classes were in basement)
Bg: How did it look different?  

PR: No. its was dungy in them days just like it is now.  

MZ0000018: 1: 00

BG: so did anything happen down here?  Anything in particular?

PR: Um. Non of the kids came too much in this area of the school.  The boys sometimes…

AE: There was a rec room down here.  

PR: yeah, but it was a basement right there.  

AE: Yeah but there was, the boy scouts used to meet there. They had ping-pong tables.  

BG: Now its an elevator…

AE: I don’t know what it is, I haven’t been down here in years.  

(non relevant talking)

MZ0000019: 2:04
BG: What did this part look like?  So this was just  the town office…

PR: This was where they played basketball.  

AE: There used to be a door right here and that went into the classroom.  But this is where…

BG: The auditorium.  

PR: I mean they change it a little bit, I mean this has been added to it.  

BG: This big curve thing?  

AE: That’s the new elevator they….

(laughing) ……

BG: Which part did you say wasn’t there?

 AE: This wall right here where the elevator is.

BG: Wow, that’s a big difference.  

AE: oh yes, it was.  

BG: Was the ceiling the same?

AE: Yep,  the same, and they used to hand streamers from…

PR: They used to hang all our decorations from that (duct?) up there.

BG: What about the stage.  

PR: That was the same thing, it hasn’t changed.  Well, the same curtain is there.  

BG: What did the floors look like, were they wooden?

PR: No it was a wooden floor.  

BG: Alright….

PR: In fact the whole building had wooden floors.  With time they converted it all to tile.   

MZ0000021: 1: 46

BG: So what was your favorite thing to do in the auditorium?  Your best memory!   

(question repeated)

AE: Sports.  

BG: Sports!

PR: Yeah, that’s about it.  

AE: This was the principles office, (BG: 105) and that was our bookkeeping room.  

(walking)

BG: And you all would come through this door?

AE: Yes, we would come in this door, we had another door too.  Right down here, that’s been blocked.

PR: Now you don’t remember the coat room we had here? You would hang your coat here?

AR: (whispers) no, downstairs.  

AE: This was the typing room.  

BG: Oh, wow.  108 …………

AE: And Annie Driscoe was upstairs over this.  

PR: Ms.Garrity.

AE: Ms. Garrity bookkeeping too?  And uh, Ms. Fleming was bookkeeping over there, shorthand.  

BG: So all of theses rooms were for bookkeeping? Wow.  

AE: And that’s where we started from.  Mr. Foley’s room.

BG: Math was down the hall?

MZ0000024: 2:47

BG: Was it warm in the building?

PR: I wasn’t cold….(mumble)

BG: Did you all conserve energy too since it was the depression?

PR: Well, I don’t know, I mean we were young.  It didn’t really bother us.  And I mean, we didn’t know it was he depression, everyone was in the same boat.  So you know….

BG: What about the walls?  Did they have pictures ad things or posters?  

 PR: No, it was pretty, there were not too many, things on eh wall.  

AE: We had a good art class.

BG: Did you?

 AE: Yes.

PR: Look at this picture.  I can remember that.  

AE: Yes, I do too, that’s Billy’s class.  1936.

PR: No, ’39.

AE: ’39.  

PR: Oh my.

BG: Did you all have class pictures?

AE: Yes.  

BG: Were they taken on site?

AE: Mhm.  

PR: We should be taken the pictures down to look at it, I can’t see it.  

AE: I know, that’s the trouble, like these here you can’t….

PR: There’s Annette St. John.

AE: Oh yeah and there’s Ms. Bachelor.  That was our principle right here.  D.B. Stevens.  We had a lot of assemblies too, I think we had one every week.  

BG: What would they do during the assemblies?

PR: Talk.

BG: Talk! (laugh)

AE: Tell us what was coming and…

BG: The week’s events or something.

PR: That’s Howard Everson’s class.

BG: What else would they do at the assemblies?  Just talk?

PR: well you know, they would bring in a speaker.  To make it interesting.  

MZ0000025: 2: 45

BG: Were these doors here also/

AE: This was study hall.  Mr. Steven’s and Mr. Connor’s room.  And Annie Driscoe.  And this was, right in through here was the um lab.  That was one huge room.  

PR: Oh yeah its been divided.  You know I don’t think I’ve been up here since I got out of school.  Upstairs, downstairs I’ve been often.  

BG: How has this changed since you’ve been here/

PR: Well, this here this was a wall.  

BG: Oh wow, so you couldn’t go through here [through the upstairs hallway).

PR: You couldn’t go through here.  There as no way of getting… well you could through that 

room.  Going through the room you could do it.  

AE: (in the background) is this a bathroom/  You know, I can’t remember.  All I can think is that we had to go to the basement downstairs.  I can’t remember it besides that.  And that was the French department.  Ms. Pratt.  

BG: Annabelle?  (should be Maybelle?)

PR; Oh yeah, that’s who it was.  

AE: This was the school’s department office and business offices.  Wow, what a change.  

BG: Are  the, well other that one, are the doors the same?  Well that one is the same but that’s changed.  

AE: Yeah that door, well maybe it was there, that was the chemistry department.  

BG: Lots of sciences, you guys had a lot of sciences.   

AE: Yeah we had the biology department, chemistry department, Ms. Bachelor.  And this took us out to the auditorium.  

AE: Did you up often into the auditorium to watch the games?  

PR: Well we went once a week.  I mean in our case we lived so close we so could go, it was noting to come to a ball game.  

BG: So where did you have English courses?  

AE: Where did we have English courses?  That room right down there.

BG: Mrs. Driscoe was English.  

PR: There was an English class right here.  

AE: Yes.

PR: Cretion.  Used to be uh…

AE: Mhm, and Ms. Shepard. 

MZ0000026: 1:22

BG: this was Ms. Driscoe. 

AR: Mhm.

AE: Those are all school offices now.  Special education, curriculum.

BG: Which did you have in that one?

PR: No that was one big one.  

AE: There was a hallway here and we went downstairs and out the side door.  That was. and  that was one big room.  That was the English department.

PR: Yeah, that was Ms. Driscoe.  

BG: So there was one department and each class would switch off? 

AE: Oh we had two English classes.  This used to be an English class.  And that one there.  We had to take history and we had to take math.  And we took science.  

PR: Well you had to take an Honor’s class.  What was that civic?

AE: Yeah, they called it civic.  

MZ0000028: 1: 04

BG: Did you ever try to slide down the stair rails or anything?

(repeat question)

PR: Nope, I don’t ever remember anybody doing that.  

AE: You know, we had a lot more discipline in school than they do now.  

PR: The classes were quiet.  

BG: Did you have detention?  

PR: If you had to go to detention you would have to go to Mr. Steven’s and that was no big deal.  

BG: Did they ever slap your wrists?  

PR: I can remember in grade school they would, she would grab your hand an *phoom*!

BG: Gosh!

MZ0000029: 11: 24

BG: So did everyone share the same homeroom?

(repeat question)

AE: No, we had three homerooms.  

BG: Okay.

AE: Room one, two, and three.  

PR: Well we had more than that.  

AE: Well yeah, this was freshmen. 

–: This was freshmen. 

PR: yeah, yeah, this end of the building was freshmen. 

AE: Yeah, this was the freshman classes and then we moved on.  

PR: (over BG) I remember having Dan Connor’s homeroom.   

AE: Well I hope we gave you some information.  

BG: Is there anything that has come up as you’ve walked around?

AE: No. just a lot of memories.  

PR: The building is getting old.

AE: Don’t say that, they’ll knock down the building.  

PR: Well, its gonna happen someday.  I hate to see it but…

BG: Has anybody tried to knock the building down?  

PR: No, but they tried to burn it down once.  

BG: Really?  When was that? What happened?

PR: Oh, I’d say about 1955.  Something like that, yeah, and the school was going on, the student was made at his teacher and he set fire to about four desks.  

BG: Whoa.

PR: yeah.  

BG: Inside?

PR: Inside here, he got in here at night.  He got the desk going, especially Foley’s, he didn’t like Mr. Foley.  And uh, well we were fortunate there was a police station was right there and one of the police officers just walked out the door and he saw room 15 on fire or so he called and uh, we go it out.

AE: He [Paul Robillard] was a fireman.

BG:  Really? You were a fireman? 

PR: Yes, all my life.  

BG: So you did that after the military?

PR: Oh yes.  

BG: What branch of military were you in?

PR: I was in the Air Force.  

BG: My parents were in the Air force too.  

AE: He was a prisoner of war.  

PR: I flew B17’s and my plane got shot down so I became a POW.  

BG: Wow, what was that like?

PR: Not too good, no.  It was a long ordeal, I was there for 19 months.  And uh, it’s a good thing it ended because I wasn’t going to last too much longer.  

BG: I’m glad you lasted.  

PR: Yeah, me too.  

(looking at spotlight newspaper)

BG: So did people read this?

AE: Oh yeah, all the time.  Did we read it!

BG: That’s how you kept up on things.  Wow.  So was it circulated….

AE: We had to pay the uh, SAS or something.  And we, that was given to us for free. I don’t know how much we paid a year, but it wasn’t very much.  We were allowed to get a Spotlight.  So it was kinda fun to look at.  

BG: was it just circulated around school?

AR: Everyone got a copy.  

PR: And was it three times a year?

AE: Four.  

BG: This is so cool!  Could anybody write in it?

AE: No it was a class.  

PR: It was put on by the class, you know.  

AE: You know, it gave you in here, who you see, editor and whatnot… and this was our uh….See this was the, all the people that were in faculty.  

BG: This is…

AE: Yeah, right in front of the town Hall, those were all teachers.  This one here, she’s a secretary.  But these were all teachers and he was our principle.  

BG: And you liked him.

AE: Yes.  And this was the man we were all afraid of.

BG: He looks a little scary!  Just a little, little intense.

AE: But he was very nice once you go to know him.  He sold encyclopedias and after I was married he came to our house to sell us some and he was as friendly as can be.  

BG: really?  He just had to be a disciplinary in class.

AE: Well, I guess so. 

PR: And he really was, at home he was like that, he had seven kids you know.    

BG: Yeah, you need to be that way.  

AE: He would never smile.  Very smart man.  

BG: So you’ve kept in contact with all these people?

AE: well, yeah, lots of them.  We have a group, we call ourselves “leftovers”. And we meet like four times a year.  We go to (a restaurant), and we go there because they give us individual checks.  And we just kinda, some come, some don’t.  Somebody’s sick, somebody’s on vacation, usually like 12, 15.  And we used to have the fellas come, but the fellas are all gone.  

PR: I’m the only one left!

AE: No.  Rodger.  

PR: Yeah, Rodger.  

AE: And yeah, there are a couple of others.  One doesn’t have a license but he still drives.  And I said “they took you license away?”  and he said “yeah, but I can still drive.”

(BG story)

AE: We had a lot in our class, we had two Brookbanks,two…, two…., and two Robillards.       

AE: Is she still taping?

BG: I am.

PR: I don’t like the look of that [year]book because there are too many of them that are gone.  Its depressing.  

BG: I can imagine.  And you liked most of these people? 

AE: mhm

BG: And your little captions.  Did you write those?  Or did other people write those?

AE: No that was the yearbook committee. 

(awkward moment)

BG: Did you have like best friends or anything?

AE: Oh yes, I had friends in other classes.  She’s a graduate and she graduated from Mount Holyoke.  She was one of them.  Mary Hoskin (?). And she lives out west.  (info on May) … No it is kinda fun to look through it.  

BG: Do you look at it in your free time?  

AE: Well every so often we pull it out and want to know about somebody.  

BG: Do you have grandkids that want to look at it?

AE: Oh yes, I have grandkids that have looked at it, they probably don’t enjoy it.  

AE: The trouble is that they make fun of all the pictures!  You don’t wanna… bring it out too much.  

AE: Well you know, they think this is kinda, *guh*!

(talking to Ann about donating yearbook)

BG: And one more question.  You mentioned art classes?

AE: Yeah, we had a very good art department.  And we had a very good art teacher.  And we had a girl in our class that was exceptionally artistic that went on to be an artist. And she’s still around and does beautiful work.  

BG: Would you do painting?

AE: She did painting, she did charcoal, she did a lot of uh, (more about painter)

BG: Where would you have classes?

AE: The art class was downstairs.  

PR: I don’t remember where.

AE: It was downstairs, yeah.  And the teacher was really a great teacher to work with, and she pushed this girl and she did very well.

BG: did you have any mentors?  Were there any teachers…?

AE: No I don’t remember that.

PR: Dan Connors.  

AE: He was one of these teaches that you could always talk to.  If you had problems, he was a good listener.   

PR: Yeah, he was, he’s listen to ya if you had problems.  Well I’ve always stayed kinda friendly with him.  

(good-byes) 

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Barbara Burns

Transcription: Caroline Bauer

4/25/07

BB: So, how long has your family lived in South Hadley?

RL: Uh, my family lived in South Hadley, let’s see I was born in ’31 and uh… ’21… I think since about 1915.

BB: Since 1915? Wow.

RL: Yeah.

BB: And what did your parents do for a living?

RL: Well, my father was a plasterer. And my mother worked in the paper mills, you know, in Holyoke.

BB: Yeah. And how about yourself? What did you do for a living after school?

RL: After school I was a manager of a supermarket. 

BB: What year did you graduate?

RL: 1949.  A few years ago, right?

BB: Yeah, a few years after World War II, right.  Are your memories of high school…was high school a good experience? Do you have fond memories?

RL: Yeah, I think so. I lived right next door to the school all my life so I was really brought up around this building, you know, so that made it convenient for me. 

BB: So you lived right here, next door?

RL: Well, not now, but when I was in high school I did, I just lived a street away over here…maybe 50 yards (laughter).

BB: So you would walk to school everyday?

RL: Yeah. I’d walk to school, then went home for a bowl of soup at lunch, and then you know, came back. It was very convenient. 

BB: Did most of the children eat their lunch at school?

RL: Well, yeah because first of all we had students that came in from Granby at the time in our high school, so a lot of students came in from Granby, from South Hadley Center where the college is, and of course, they all ate their lunch here but I didn’t. {1:57} 

BB: And did you stay after school a lot then? For extra-curricular activities or hanging out? 

RL: Well, I was very involved in sports. I played all three sports, and that was my after school activity. 

BB: Was that football…?

RL: Football, baseball and basketball were the three main sports then.  They were not like today where you have 12 or 14 sports, they had three then and that was about it. So, that was my after school activity. 

BB: And did you hang out after school? Being so close to the school?

RL: No, I wouldn’t say we hung out at the school.  Our hang out was, well we used to call it the corner; the main intersection downtown.  It was a grocery store on one side of the corner plus a little malt shop, if you want.  That’s where we used to hang out, in the malt shop on the corner, you know.

BB: Sounds fun.  Have to been to any high school reunions?

RL: Yeah, matter of fact I have, we used to have one every 5 years since ’49.  I think maybe out of that 50 years or so, we’ve probably missed two 5 year reunions.  So I was quite involved in that. I happened to be class president, so you get involved, you know, when you’re there, so…I went to a lot of them

BB: So you were class president back in high school?

RL: Yes.

BB: Throughout your whole high school years?

RL: No, uh…sophomore, junior and senior, 3 years. 3 years.

BB: That must have taken up a lot of time.

RL: Yeah, it did. But, you know, it went with the flow I guess, you know.

BB: You still kind of do that now.

RL: well, only at reunion times.  A lot of members are gone now, so you don’t get involved as much anymore.

BB: Yeah. Did most of your friends stay in South Hadley after graduation?

RL: Well, my friends probably no.  Classmates, I would say yes. You know what I mean?

BB: Yes.

RL: I don’t know, I don’t want to break down…a lot of them stayed, yeah.

BB: But a lot of them moved away?

RL: Yeah. A lot of them did, those who went off to school to, you know, different parts of the country, got married, what have you, and left.

BB: Did you stay in touch with them?

RL: Not really. I wasn’t much of a real social as far as writing letters and so…

BB: Yeah, it is different today, huh? Direct contact.

RL: Yeah, direct contact, you know. It’s the way it goes.

BB: So, did you have children that went to the new high school?

RL: Yes, all three of my children went to the high school.  In fact our oldest…’50s or so… I think she might have been in, well it was certainly after the new high school opened.  I’m not sure of the year it opened. Was it ’65 or ’68 that it opened?

BB: Yeah, I actually don’t remember now, we’d have to look that up.

RL: Well, all three of them went to the new high school.

BB: And how does their experience compare with your experience? What do you think of the new high school in terms of this high school?

RL: Uh, it is hard to say. I really haven’t spent any time in the new high school. You know, but I think just because of the size of the classes now, and the amount of people that are attending I don’t think it can be as enjoyable as ours. I mean, in our senior class, we had 92 people. You know, it was quite small. It was a smaller town back then, there was more intimacy, more closeness. You knew everybody, I think that is true. {6:00}

BB: So you knew everybody in your class?

RL: Oh yeah.

BB: But did people divide up into groups, like according to where they lived, or interests?

RL: Yeah, I think they did. I think that is natural anyway.  I think those people in college courses sort of hung around together. Those who were in the business section sort of hung around together, you know what I mean? Those who did sports hung around together (laughter) you know what I mean? So different interests, I think it’s a natural clique, I don’t think there is any animosity there, I just think it was natural, like you know.

BB: It is too many people to have in one big group.

RL: Yeah, you know, everybody is different.  What would it be like if we were all the same?

BB: Could you give me a personalized tour of the high school? From what you remember?

RL: Well, from what I can remember.  It has changed quite a bit…yeah sure! What I can remember.

BB: So where are we standing now? The old high school? (laughter)

RL: Well, this is the old high school, yeah.  This used to be the main, one of the main hallways this one here plus the one going down to the right, you know, I’m not really sure but I think the principal’s office was somewhere over here, the auditorium was over here.

BB: What was the principal like? Do you remember him?

RL: Oh yeah, you know, his name was Donald Stevens.  He was from the center, very, very low-key guy. He was very nice, enjoyed it. But this room has changed a lot since we were here.  You used to be able, at one time, to go into a classroom right through here.  Because when we were playing basketball and we went to the gym, you went through a classroom right over there which is probably a tax collectors office now, you’d come through here, this would be the gym, the gym would be here and there’d be a basket at each end of the court, and uh, this was the old town hall. This was it.

BB:  This is a nice gym.  Is this where they held the dances as well?

RL: This is where they held the dances and proms.

BB: And theater? When they did plays? 

RL: Yes, up on the stage. Yeah, and this is where we’d have your school assembly, you know, on Memorial Day or whatever, you know, this was the focal point, I guess. {8:55}

BB: Do you have any memories of some good games you played?

RL: Well, yeah. Not too many, they seem to blend after 50 years, you know what I mean. But yeah, they were close, they were exciting, they were fine. {9:10}

BB: And what position did you play?

RL: I played guard on the basketball team. Yep. Me and a fellow by the name of Gerald Mehan (sp?), we used to call him Bunny Mehan, I bumped into him at our previous reunion too, so a lot of them are still around. Still around, yeah.

BB: That’s good.  And who did you play?

RL: Well, we were on what they call the Hampshire League, uh, and it was Amherst, Orange, St. Jerome Rosary in Holyoke which is no longer there, you know, uh, Ware, Up in Arms Academy up in Shelburn Falls. You know, it was about 8 or 10 teams in that particular league.

BB: And where did you say the bleachers were? It hardly seems big enough for bleachers here.

RL: Yeah, it does but the bleachers were right here.

BB: Underneath the balcony?

RL: Yeah, underneath the balcony, but like I say, it was a small school at that time. Not like today.

BB:  I heard at the dances the parents would sit up above, to chaperone.

RL: Oh yeah, absolutely. And it is funny because right outside, there is a fire escape.  Well, I don’t know what that thing there is right now but there was a  fire escape there before.  I think now there is a handicapped elevator, but of course that was never there.  We used to go up the fire escape here, and there was a door over there and you could come in that way there too, you know. (Laughter) This was never here neither, that is all new. It was a much bigger room at that particular time than it is now.

BB: And did you have graduation here?

RL: No, we had graduation at the amphitheater, up in Mount Holyoke, which I think they still do today.  In the amphitheater, yeah, out in the back.  Either that or in the, or there is an auditorium up there too…I forget the name…it is on the main drag.  We had graduation there too, either or, depending.

BB: This is a nice room.  (Walking) So what was your coach like?

RL: His name was Thomas Landers, Thomas B. Landers.  He was with us all four years, in fact, I think the gym in the new high school is named after him, or the baseball field up at the school is named after him, he was here 25-30 years.  He was here a long time.

BB: And did he do all the sports, or just basketball?

RL: No, he did basketball and baseball, yeah.  And this here was um, I think was um, bookkeeping and that type of thing.  They’ve split the rooms up here, I don’t know, it is hard to…

BB: So this was the office?

RL: Yeah.  This here was English, well English was over there, I’m not sure what was over here honestly.  And actually, this hallway continued and there was a door on the side of the building and there was a door where you could come in from the side.  But they must have blocked it up now.  I bet if we walked outside we would see it all blocked up.

BB: Yeah, that would be interesting.
RL: Down here was, history was all the way down here on the right hand side.  I’m not sure what would have been here…I forget. But I know history was down here, history was over to the right.

BB: And what was here?

RL: well, this is actually, to tell you the truth, this was the door I used to come in a lot because I used to live right across the street. I would just come in the back and come in this door.  A lot of the students came in through the front door because, you know, the busses dropped you off and that was the front door, but yeah, this is still here.  And this little area here is where we used to convene during the half-periods of the football games because we’d play right across the street at what they call the “beach grounds.” Half time you’d come up here, and all sit down, and of course the coach would give you the pep talk.  Over to the right was Mr. Foley in History, and in here was Latin. This has all changed, I mean, I don’t even recognize it anymore. {14:36}

BB: And this was Latin, in here?

RL: Yeah, this was Latin.  This was Latin.

BB: Can you remember your Latin, 52 years later?

RL: Not too much, maybe the roots, you know the basic roots but not too much…Ommo Omas Oman? (laughter)  There was actually an exit right through those doors, to the left too.

BB: I see. Oh yeah, there is something in there.

RL: I forget what might have been here, I’ll be honest with you.  Well, I knew the entry way was in here.  And that stairway leads to the downstairs, the locker rooms, and I think Home-EC was down there too, right.

BB: So, let me ask you now, was Home-EC and the locker rooms, were they together or separate?

RL: You know, I think you have me on that. I know Home-EC was down here someplace but uh, I’m not really, it’s been so long. {15:50} Now see this door leads to that alcove there would come in here, and we’d come in there, where the boys locker room was.  We’d suit up and dress up and go out there…down here I think there was the showers right over to the left. Well, it was sort of wide open.  Wow, well now I have no idea what is going on down here, uh this is all new.

BB: Did you ever go in the Home-EC department? Or was that just girls?

RL: No, that was just girls.  But, uh, were the girls locker rooms-dress rooms down here too? Uh…maybe in here? Uh…I think so, but I’m not sure.  Of course they had the old boiler too, you know where the janitor used to fire up the boiler and so forth like that there. This used to be a restroom over in here, is it still a restroom now? 

BB: Oh, it looks like it might be.

RL: Well, I think this is where the elevator comes in now. But I think at one time this was a restroom because I still think at the time, part of this building was the town offices.  Yeah, I think this end of the building was the town offices,

BB: Yeah, it was actually.

RL:I think they had this as a public restroom.  That was a town office there, over there.  I think you used to be able to go right through here, and you came out over on the other side where I showed you, used to come in that door and come up those stairs, in and out.  One time, shortly after mid-30s maybe, the town used this for “town recreation” and the town ran it.  You could play basketball upstairs or badminton, they would have their rooms down here, or something like that.  That’s about it.

BB: Is there an upstairs as well?

RL: Yeah there is an upstairs, we should be able to walk up. 

BB: So, were there any teachers that were particularly inspiring, memorable or funny?

RL: Well, I guess but none were outstanding.  As far as that goes, there were a lot of good teachers, we had Mr. Heeman in Physics, who was a very smart man.  This here used to be one of our classrooms over there, and I think that over there was one of the town-offices. We had very few…

Town Hall Employee: Hi, can I help you?

BB: We’re doing an interview.

Town Hall Employee: Oh, I just didn’t know if you were going into the closet.

RL: We’re trying not to get lost.

Town Hall Employee: Oh! (Laughter)

RL: This of course, was the balcony. 

BB: Does it bring back memories?

RL: Oh yeah, we used to sneak up here a lot.

BB: What did you used to sneak up here for?

RL: Well, to watch different games and so forth.  If they had a dance or a movie on the stage, or a play on the stage we’d sneak up on the side elevator.

BB: So the teachers couldn’t see?

RL: Yeah, you know.  Now up here, the room on the right, we used to call room 15.  That was, well that wall wasn’t there, because it was a big room.  It was a senior room, this was where all the seniors were housed in your senior year, basically. They also used it as a study, you know, and so forth.  That was homeroom during the senior year.

BB: Yeah.

RL: And again this is the main staircase, this leads right down to where we were sitting on the bench. But uh, over to the right here was Mr. Conners and he had Civics…What else besides Civics? He was the Dean of Boys, very nice, very smart.

BB: What’s the Dean of Boys?

RL: Well, he was in charge of boys, discipline.  If you were late too often, you had to go see Mr. Conners. 

BB: What would he do?

RL: Well, depending on how many times you were late, he would…We never had any problems though.

BB: What did boys discipline consist of at that time? 

RL: Maybe detention, but that was about the limit of it you know.  One thing is, in those days we didn’t get into trouble like today, we didn’t have any of those.  If you were late to school or you were caught smoking, I think you got detention. But that was the limit of our wildness, if you will.  

BB: You mentioned that you went home for lunch.  Did students often leave the school?

RL: well, depending on if you were nearby or if you didn’t carry lunch.  A lot of us would go down to that Malt Shop, I think it was called Doogan’s at the time.  We only had a half an hour or so, so you couldn’t really go far.  You were allowed to leave, go across the street.  That was called the playground or the beach ground, and that was where all the sports were played, you know. And we used to go down to Doogans, get a soda or buy a little snack or whatever, you know.  It was wide open, there were no restrictions.

BB: It sounds relaxed.

RL: Yeah, it was. Very much so.

BB: You know, nobody can seem to remember where they put their coats.  People are saying, oh they must have had a lot of coats because of the snow, and mittens.

RL: You’re right, I’ve never thought about that to be honest with you.

BB: Maybe in the home room?

RL: You know, I kind of think that it might have been downstairs in that hallway where the showers were, I think there were a lot of hooks and things in.  I don’t remember individual lockers, to be honest with you, like the kids have today in the schools, but other than that…You’re right, that is a good question.

BB: So, to be class president, did you have to run for it and vote? Did people vote for you?

RL: No, we never had like you have today, with people out there giving speeches and all that, I really kind of think it was a popularity contest more than anything to be honest with you.   I didn’t do anything special, didn’t expect anything, it just came.

BB:  So you know many of the children?

RL: Oh yeah, like I said, I played three sports.  I was very popular in high school and I think that fell over into being the President.  You know, I was no smarter or no different than a lot of people in my class, in fact there were some that were a lot more so.  That was a byproduct of just, you know…

BB:  You feel like you have a lot of people connection/ability?

RL: Yeah, you know.  Hope so anyways.

BB: Is there anything you would do over in high school?  If you had to go back to it?

RL: Oh God.  Maybe be a little more serious, pay a little more attention, you know what I mean?  But, who knows.  I had a good life, and so, I can’t complain.

BB: So you concentrated more on sports than on your studies?

RL: Yeah, I think so.  I wasn’t a student per se. I think a lot of things came easily to me and I probably took that for granted. I probably shouldn’t have.  I probably should have capitalized on what you had; but at that stage in the game, who knew and who cared?  If I had to do something over again, it would probably be that.  Be a little more serious at that particular stage in life.

BB: And who was your favorite teacher?

RL: Well, I wouldn’t say I had one to be honest with you.  There wasn’t one that I’d call, like a mentor, you know what I mean? I enjoyed them all, I worked with them all, and they all worked with me.  For a favorite? I wouldn’t say I had one. 

BB: As class president, what sorts of things did you help plan? 

RL: We did a lot of things, we’d organize the proms, you know, we’d do the class meetings, and things like that.  I mean, we weren’t political at all, it was there and we did what we had to do, but we didn’t go out and search for causes or anything.

BB: I heard there was a powder-puff football game.

RL: I know what it means, it means the girls against the guys.

BB: Was that what it was?

RL: Yeah, but we didn’t have that, I don’t remember that.   They had one of those recently, up at the high school.  But I don’t think we had any back in 

’48 or ’49.  But then of course, girls didn’t play sports as much back then, you know what I mean. 

BB: Right.

RL: It was just the guys, that was a sign of the times.  So, I doubt that we had a  powder-puff game at that particular time.

BB: And what kind of relationship did the students have with Mount Holyoke?  Do you think it affected the boys and girls differently?

RL: Well, at that time, if you had a good enough mark, you could go onto Mount Holyoke on a scholarship for free.  For four years from South Hadley, and many of the students did.  But like a lot of other towns, and a lot of other kids at that age, when you are ready to go to college, you want to go away to college.  Mount Holyoke was a top rated college, but a lot of them just wanted to go away: “I don’t want to go to college in my own town,” you know? I think that was a prevalent thought more than anything.  But of course today, it is tough enough to get into college anyway.  If you want to be an engineer, well, what are the best engineering schools? And visa-versa, so, not that many, well, I don’t know the break down, but I don’t think many of the students in our graduating class when to college.  So, it is not like today.

BB: So you went on to manage a store, is that right? Or did you go on to school?

RL: Well, I managed the store for a year, and then I went to U of Mass for four years.  But I worked for a year because I needed some money. (Laughter)

BB: And then after that?

RL: Well, after that I went to University of Mass, and then I went with A & P managing supermarkets.  And that was my career.

BB: Did you have anything to do with Mount Holyoke?  Did you ever meet any of the students?

RL: No.

BB: Just two different worlds?

RL: Yeah, just two different worlds.

BB:  Two different age groups.

RL: Yeah, two different age groups, exactly, we never got involved with anything like that.  But I can remember in high school, especially some of the guys who lived up in the center, whenever the girls would come in in the Fall, they would take 2-3 days off school and carry their luggage up to the rooms and make themselves a couple dollars. In the day, that was a big thing.  Of course, nobody had any money then. {30:41}  I don’t think they still do that today?

BB: I don’t think so, no.

RL: Times have changed.

BB: So did many of the students have cars?

RL: No. None of us had cars.  Maybe one or two, but I can’t remember who would have had a car.  But no, no one had cars.

BB: So on the sports teams, the children who came from Granby and the other out-lying communities, were they able to participate?

RL: Oh sure. They were able to participate.  To tell you the truth, the vice president of our class…I know his nickname but I’m not going to say it…Mr. Bissel, was from Granby.  He played sports.  Now, how did he get home after school? I guess his parents had to come pick him up, there was not a bus of course, the bus would have gone.  He must have arranged for somebody to come pick him up.   They were full-time students, no question about it.

BB:  So you think the major difference between the schools is not so much the space as much as the quantity of students?

RL: I think so, yeah, definitely yeah.  When you get a much bigger class, there is not the camaraderie that you have in a smaller group. Now, like I say, even in sports you must have 10-12 major sports in high school today, so how many different cliques, if you will, or groups you don’t even know, don’t even bump into, you know.  When we were here, it was much smaller and much more closely knit, I think. 

BB: So did you enjoy being class president? What was that like?

RL: Well, actually, we really didn’t do that many things.  I think it was just a position that you had and there wasn’t much to do but class meetings and prom and functions, Memorial Day events going on and that was it. No big deal, really.

BB: So do you think students today have a lot more pressure in school?

RL: Oh I think so.

BB: What you’re describing sounds pretty relaxed.

RL: Yeah like I said, we had no cars, we just stayed around, lived on the beach grounds, grew up on the beach grounds, there was no drugs or anything like that, you know what I mean? If you went to Holyoke, it was for a movie or something like that.  But today with the cars and the wheels and the drugs and the peer pressure, I’m not saying we didn’t have peer pressure, but I think it is a lot more today. {33:56}

BB: It sounds like maybe for the studying to go to college too..

RL: Yeah, the competition now is fierce. 

BB:  What do you think about how the town hall is being used today?

RL: Well, I’ll tell you, town hall is a lot nicer today than it was in high school (Laughter). You know, they’ve got tile floors, carpeted hallways, handicapped elevators and they got the works. But, the building is being put to good use and I think that is a plus.  I think the student population outgrew the building so they had to do something, so I think it is a plus for both sides.

BB: Do you think that this building could be put to other uses besides being town hall?

RL: Well, I haven’t thought of it to be perfectly honest with you.  I really don’t know. I don’t know what it would be used for to be perfectly honest. We’ll leave it at that, I guess.

BB: Is there anything else that you would like to add? For people to know about you?

RL: No, I don’t think so. I think that’s about it. It was a good time, it served its function, I think it treated us well and gave us a good education and I think it is fine. 

-Transcript by Caroline Bauer

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Danielle Babcock and Nafkote Gurmu

Spring 2007

 -15 –

MK – Um, some of them come back. Uh, especially the big year was the fiftieth. Boy, there were alot that came to that. And, then it peters off. But, the committees, uh, the class reunion committees were fun to work on, and we’re in touch with alot of the people. But we know their address, we know where they live, but we don’t get together unless there’s a reunion. I do have one friend from high school, and she calls me – when I had the stroke, she found out. And since then, she’s called me every week, sometimes two or three times a week to make sure I’m OK. And she came up to see me, and, uh…. and it’s, ah, we’ve gone back to being as close as we were, I would think, as we were in high school. Her father was the fire chief so – um, Chuck Hoffman, Charlie Hoffman. And I would, I’d stay overnight alot at her house. She was an only child. And we’d, we’d study together, and then we’d play our records, you know. I’m trying to think of the group that was, uh, popular at the time, but we, we had all their records. I wish I could think of it. And we’d go in her room, shut the – she had these big, sliding heavy doors. So at that time, I thought I would try, thought it would be sheik to try smoking. [laughter] So, I, I know I didn’t spend money on cigarettes, but I think I must of – my mother smoked, and she always smoked. And, uh, I think I must have taken some of hers. So, one night Barbara, my friend, and I were sitting up in bed, and I’m puffing opened and her father, he said, “Are you smoking in here?” [laughter] Well, of course, I was. I had it right in my hand, you know, and he could smell it. But, um, oh, he was wild. You know, that, and that put the stop to it really. I didn’t think it was so smart after that. I got a good lecture. 

D – Was, like, smoking common at school? Like, were there, like, kids that smoked, or like a place that people could smoke at school?

MK – No, the boys would smoke – you’d, you’d see them – well, not in school, but on their way out, maybe to get the bus, or to go down to the – there was a store where you could get a sandwich, and they’d light up then. Or maybe they smoked down in the boy’s bathroom. I don’t know. Um, it, if people smoked, especially girls, I think it was because you’d see it in the movies. All the glamour queens would always be smoking, you know, and it was part of the – we thought – allure. And, how… and doing it now again, I notice there a couple of films recently that I’ve seen where people are smoking. And… Everybody smoked during that era. Everybody. And I suppose that’s why so many of our parents had cancer and heart disease because we didn’t know. But fortunately for me, I didn’t like it, I didn’t like it at all, so I, I didn’t smoke. But just – at times.

[laughter]

N – Do you have children who attended South Hadley High School?

MK – No

N – -other than yourself?

MK – No, that would have been nice. But… No.

D – So have you been to the new South Hadley High School at all?

MK – No. I haven’t, and, you know, I don’t want to. I don’t think I’ve been there. If it, if I have been it was a long time ago. I may have been there once. I belong to Rotary Club, and, um, what we do during the school year is bring students, uh, who are recommended by the guidance counselor to come to Rotary, and they give their background, what, how they’re doing in school, their extracurricular activities, and alot of them do – almost all of them volunteer now, and in the community, some kind of way. And when you hear all that they’re doing, you wonder how they can –

                                                                      -16 –

 MK – -find the energy or the time to do it all. But, um, I believe I may have picked up a couple of students but it had to be at least a good ten years ago. And I’ve been to Granby… now, Holyoke Catholic High School which was located in Granby, I’ve been there. But, no, I can’t say that I’m familiar with the new high school at all, the gym, or, or anything.

N – Um, and when was the last time you were in this building?

MK – Mmm. Well, you know there are some offices down at the end, and, uh… I think I came in here for – might have been registered to vote, that might of been it… Be, um, well, I don’t come down.

D/N – Right.

MK – -very often. As I – I said I live near the college-

D/N – Right.

MK – -and, um, I have no need to come down… at all.  What, this room certainly looks familiar. And it was scary in a way, if you, I can remember, we had a special assembly, I forget what it was, uh, for, and… we didn’t know it but my friend and I were both… brought into a “promarital” – it was an honary society. Neither one of us knew that we were going to be called. It was so embarrassing because, what [laughter] what she did, she was taking totally off guard, and she -her name was Hoffman -so she and my name was Miller, so I think it was because of alphabetically she went first They called her up and instead of going up those little stairs, she went out that door, and there was nothing there. [laughter] She couldn’t get up to the stage, she had to come back down again. And, you know, there was a lot of snickering and laughing but fortunately for – I don’t think I would have done that, I mean I don’t know where that led to. [laughter] So I had the advantage of having her make that mistake so I went tripping up those little stairs. But it was kind of, um, huh, scary, you know, I felt, and it might have been just me, and I was kind of self conscious in groups, or I think it’s your age maybe. You know, you’re not really… confident when you’re in your teens somehow, or I wasn’t. I, I was to a certain extent, but… socially I think I was, but for anything like that where you’re up in front of the whole school, and you know the classes were relatively small – I think when our, our graduating class had, I think, seventy one ot two. That’s not many, and so teachers really got to know you, and your parents unfortunately too in  many cases for some. But, um, the kids were good but, you know, we, we didn’t really get into… they wouldn’t have tolerated it – you would have been expelled. 

D – Right.

MK – Well, it was strict. There was no… talking out in class or holding hands with a boyfriend or. No, I mean didn’t do that, we didn’t even chew gum. Now, there, it was a rather a rather strict environment, and, ah, if you… stepped outside of that, you paid.

D/N – Yeah. 

MK – Yeah.

D – Well, would you be willing to, like, walk around and, like, talk about the building a little bit with us?

MK – Um, well, I don’t even know if I could find my home room – I know upstairs there, it was a big study hall. Yeah, if you want to.

N – OK. Thanks.

                                                                           -17 – 

[walking]

MK – I’ve been here… and to the right… [inaudible] That was our school library I think, in here…[walking]… Yeah, there it is. That was room one…. and that was my homeroom as a freshman… It’s all cut up, they put.. yeah… this is… all… see they, divided it.

[inaudible]

MK – No, we’re just making a little tour. This was room one… And, uh, an older teacher who taught latin – we used to call her Granny Hale. And, she was a good teacher, but she was getting up there. I don’t know how old she was, but, and then, um… we’ll see, U.S. history…maybe it was that place there…

[walking]

Person – Hello!

MK –  Hi, I’m just trying to reconstruct this-

Person – Up, Go Ahead!

MK – I think this was U.S. history. I know we didn’t have to go very far for U.S. history. Latin was also taught in that room. And then… um, I don’t know what was found there. I don’t even remember how we got to the girl’s bathroom – think there was a cafeteria downstairs someplace, and I was talking about that with, uh, my friend Barbara, and she said I don’t remember a cafeteria. I said, of course, the girls  who took home-ek would prepare sandwiches, so you could buy them or bring yours from home. This I think I had geometry, this was ah… ah math… ah class. And ah… they didn’t have these restrooms. I know they weren’t in here. [walking]. And I don’t… Miss Pratt… Miss Pratt was right here, the Dean of girls. That’s an office. Yeah, and, uh, she was very… precise, and always beautifully groomed, because I said she always had that frown that made you think what did I do wrong now? Yeah, I think… and we used this entrance, this is – I think there were, at the time there might have been some town offices in, uh, in here.  

[walking]

MK – One of the things I was always worried about – you couldn’t wear slacks in those days, and I was always got worried about being on the  – coming to the top and having the boys down at the bottom and how much they could see. [laughter] And of course, it was noisy when we’d get out of class because these were all, there was no carpeting. It was wooden floors. It was a big room right here. This was all one room. [walking] Yeah, see that went through, and, uh, there were students up in front, and students in the back. It was, it was a study hall, that was what it was. And then, um, I guess they be – began realizing that some of us were, uh, abusing bei – bathroom passes, and, uh, you know, they’d say “gotta go” and then they’d disappear out of class for who knows how long. So then we had a monitoring system. One student would sit at the desk. You had to have your pass when you left the room and on return, so… that got tightened up. Um, down there, I can’t remember… I really can’t… That  might have – 

D – Those are the [inaudible] chemistry labs?

MK – Oh, yeah! You’re right! That’s right. Chemistry. Yep.

D – And there’s the auditorium right there.

                                                       -18 –

MK – What?

D – I think that’s the top of the auditorium.

MK – Oh, yeah. I thought you were going to say that’s the auditorium. 

D – Uh, no…

MK – Looks nice down there, very homey. Um, what else was up here? Oh, um, there was a Mister Connors, Danny Connors, I think…. I think that’s where civics was taught, that room there…. Yeah. It’s strange how – oh, wait a minute, did I say Miss Pratt was here? No,  that’s down – she was downstairs, yeah. She was, she was, ah, a character – but a nice character. I was terrified of her. She loved my sister; she said, she said to me one day – uh, I mentioned my sister Joyce. She said “Joyce Miller is your sister!” I said, “yes”. She said “I never would have thought it”. She said “I, I would have take you for an only child, and I thought… “What did she mean by that!’

I don’t think it was good. But you know, now, looking back, how patient she had to be, or impatient. I, I wish I could… I wish I could… tell her how much… in later years… I appreciated her teaching …and… one day I was very rude to her, and, you know, I… of course my mother didn’t know it, and I didn’t know enough to go in the next day and apologize. I just never apologized. I just went in. I was really afraid to go in, because of what I did, I left the class. She had me standing up trying to pronounce something, and I really was going to start to cry if, if I stayed any longer. So I went out, and class was not over. And I went out. And we had the big heavy doors where the door banged on, on it. An I went out and said Oh. But I went out, I went down to the girl’s restroom and I stayed till the bell rang. And I think of that now, isn’t that funny, after all those years, I thought, why  didn’t I have the common sense to go in the next day to her office and say, you know, Mrs. Pratt, I want to apologize for being rude. But she probably figured, you know… whatever she figured. [slight laughter]

N – Um, were there sufficient places where people hang out both inside and outside the school?

MK – Um, there was a newsroom, a Dugens news room on Bridge Street, that’s not there any more. And, then, um, I’m trying to think, down here, there was no hanging around in here. I mean… maybe you didn’t found the boy’s locker rooms probably, but I, I really didn’t know. No, We didn’t, we didn’t really hang around here. Um, there were, there were businesses though where you, there were places you could go to get a sandwich – I’m trying to think, there was a place you called Condi and Vito, and it’s now Caproni’s and it was an Italian, a little coffee shop, get sandwiches, and ice cream sundaes, things like that, So, there, a few would hang around there, but more on Bridge St., there was much more, there was a Collins Drugstore on the corner there. Alot of people would be around there, but we didn’t, there was no poolroom or anything like that, where the boys would be apt to hang around. And, frankly, what the boys did, I don’t, I don’t know. I… I was with the girls. And… I don’t know. Some of the girls followed the sports; they were cheerleaders, but I, I… to me I always thought, I know it’s a big thing now, but I always thought it was tacky. I don’t know. My mother wouldn’t let me do it anyway. I didn’t want to do it. Just, uh… yeah.

N – Were there places to –

                                                                        -19 –

N – -avoid?

MK – Places to avoid?

N – Yeah.

 MK – … Well… I’m trying to think. There was a… well, there’s the river, which is always… but we didn’t, we didn’t go down, you know, there’s a dike there now, you – but before the river just, ah… oh, if I’m in the right spot or not…

D – Nothing like at school, no places to avoid, like while you’re in school or after school?

MK – Oh, no… not… I, I’ve… maybe I was just too… uh… I don’t know. I certainly didn’t want to be any trouble to my mother. You know. Uh, I’m – besides I always wanted to go right home and, and get started on the homework, because we did get alot of homework. We had very good teachers, but you did not come in unprepared, you know. You’d be in a mess. You, you, you couldn’t fool them. You know. You might have an English composition that you had to write and bring in, or latin, you know, you had to memorize your vocabulary, same with French. Math was my mimeses. I was always scared in math because, and I think it stems from way back when we made the transitions from old “Caroo” to new “Caroo”, um, that was the division between the third and fourth grade. The fourth grade you would have started problems, you know reading the problem? And everybody would say “oh, problems are hard. Oh, problem are hard.” And, once I heard that, that’s all I needed to hear. Well, I’m not going to be able to do problems. And, and I wasn’t good at doing problems. Maybe if you knew algebra, you’d go back and say “why couldn’t I do that?” You know. “It was so simple.” But… um….

D – Did you get any places that were off limits? Did anybody?

MK – Uh –

D – David just said that, like, upstairs used to be, there’s a few town offices up there too and, you were, like you were supposed to be quiet around them –

MK – Yep. There were – 

D – -around the principal’s office 

N – Yeah. 

MK – Oh, yeah, no. Oh, no you wouldn’t – you wouldn’t fool around there. 

I – But, I know, like at my high school there’s places where, like, you can’t, like, the smokers would hang out, or like, like the, like, like the kids who would always get in trouble would hang out so you’d want to avoid those areas. I guess you didn’t have kids like that here so…

MK – Kids  were pretty good. They’d do, uh… they’d like, Granny Hale I was telling you about. They had these closets that would open, you know, they, folding doors. So one day, I don’t even remember now who did it – the boys naturally. There were two or three that were involved. They took her chair and they hung it, put it in the closet and shut the closet door. So she came in, you know, and, uh… she has no chair,  but I think she knew, you know, I’m not going to fall for it , because, there, maybe, you know, it had been done many times before to her. And another funny episode… we had – I took general math to prepare myself for going into higher levels of math. We had a teacher called Sarah Plantings, she was from Amherst. She was tall, she must have been 5 -10. And very… uh, well they all wore the same clothes, day in and day out. Nobody changed, and  think Granny Hale would wear the same dress forever. You know. And, uh, Sarah Planting had these brown oxfords, kind of a heel, and she wore cotton stockings, kind of out of it, you know, as far as the other teachers – well, one day she was, uh, at the blackboard, and she dropped her chalk, and she bent over to get it. And the, the chairs were we were sitting was like from here to right here. So that we had one kid, Donald Cludy or, and he had a compass with a point on it and he goes chaaarge! Now she didn’t know it. But we knew it, and we all – and she turned around and her face was red – 

                                                                       – 20 –

MK – – red. She knew something had gone on, but she didn’t know what. But he, he had a, he wasn’t smart, but he, but he was funny. Poor thing, he died before, he didn’t graduate. Yep, I don’t know what happened. He developed something but, he, he was hurt, oh God, he, he, he teased her alot. But, I thought that day we were all laughing. Yeah. And then another day Gann, Granny Hale, she used to wear these kind of… I don’t know whether they were crepe or what. Well, she got up to go to the blackboard, and her dress was hiked way up, it was caught in her corset. Nobody told her, and, of course, we’re all tittering and laughing, you know, but nobody had the – well, would you have the guts to go up and say, you know, well, you know, your, your stockings, whether they were stocking hooked to garters in those days – 

D/N – Right.

MK – -with a corset or whatever she wore.  And, no one’s going to get up and tell her, but, um, but the kids didn’t really do… nothing like what goes on today, nothing.

N – Yeah. Yeah. OK. Should I pause this?  Or?

D/N – I think… um, yeah. I think we have most of that. Um, Yeah

N – What’s your final thoughts?

D – Yeah, do you have any final thoughts, like, about high school you want to share?

MK – Well, I have very fond memories of high school, and… and of the teachers, and how… with… very little, they don’t, they didn’t have the media, they didn’t have the teaching aids then, but they taught, and they really… I’m glad that I went to school then and not now. I would not… like school now. I wouldn’t want to have to be afraid in school, that someone would be shot or knifed or a teacher, you know, having to break up a fight, or, or the mouthing off to teachers, no. We respected our teachers. We did. And if you can’t, if you can’t discipline the kids, then you can’t teach. If they can’t discipline themselves, they’re not going to learn, so… there may have been one or two who, who were discipline problems, I – but if they were, I don’t know who they were. Certainly not a girl. No.

N – What do you think about the current use of the building as a town hall?

MK – What do I think of the use as – 

D – Like the building of the new school, like replacing the school?

MK – Well, it – I suppose it was a necessity, um. I certainly don’t think they had the money to go out and build a new town hall, and, you couldn’t, couldn’t conduct school here today. I mean I don’t know what the student body is but it’s… look at the car, the parking lot. See, kids couldn’t take their cars to school. Well, none of them had cars. But, once in a while, there was one fellow that had an old model T. And he must have been give permission to bring it, but even the teachers would live nearby and walk to work. You might see three or four cars out there, at the most. Yep, no big parking lots. 

D/N – Thank you.

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Brittany Gaudette

Interviewee: William Bennett

Spring 2007

MZ000001 – testing track

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MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: One divorced, no two divorced. One widow, no two widows. Uh, I think I think four girls in a line. Yeah. I don’t think that happened before that, and I’m not sure it ever happened since. I kiddingly tell my wife they made a rule against it at Mount Holyoke because they haven’t received an awful lot of alumni contributions. My wife is regular, but she’s small, she keeps something regular though. 

CARALIE: That’s really funny though because we were wondering about the relations with Mount Holyoke.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, it was…there was a town and gown kind of thing. But, they treated us well, I thought, as kids. They let us use the gym at night, Saturday night. They had movies at SAH hall, Mary Woolley hall, is it? Friday nights I remember they had movies they let us come. We always used the pond. We’d skate in the winter and swim in the summer. And my father had a flower shop and most of the business was generated by Mount Holyoke faculty and dances of course and things that went on and functions. So I did a lot of delivering of flowers in the faculty area of campus too. But I thought they treated us kids well. I think.

BRITTANY: They actually still do that. I work at the gym and they have South Hadley Rec. kids that come in and play basketball.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Now, many years ago there was a Filenes branch store in town because of the college. And I worked as a kid, you know, taking boxes apart down cellar and so forth in the store. But in, I don’t know, the mid 40s, early 40s, there was a contingent of women’s navy officers housed at Mount Holyoke in Rocky and Filenes had the contract for the uniforms. So I was, as a kid, down there taking the boxes apart. There were hats I remember they had 2 or 3 tailors who would tailor the uniform for the women. And this wave unit I don’t know if they were two years or they were four years, I was down there a lot. In this room and Filenes store also. Okay, I don’t want to stop.

CARALIE: So just so you know, this project is about memories of high school and how space elicits different memories. So we will be able to walk around the building and everything just to see what it brings back for you. And to see how it was used then and how it is used now. And what you kinda think about that. So that’s what we’re going for.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I didn’t, I’ve never been in the new high school. I don’t know when they changed to tell you the truth.

CARALIE: Really? What year did you graduate?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT:’45.

CARALIE: Okay.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: There was an interesting rule or regulation then. The draft was in place WWII was going on all the time during high school. The rule was, when you turned 18 you registered for the draft. And then you had no choices. They didn’t take you out of High School; they waited until you graduated until they drafted you. They made a rule here, if you were in good standing academically, and before you turned 18, say in the spring of ’45…they would grant you your diploma and you could join a service. Two or three, I forget how many. I joined the Coast Guard. And then there’s Jack Barry, joined the Navy. Charley Tarr joined the navy. The navy wouldn’t take me because of my eyes, but the Coast Guard did. So, I went in the service in March of 45. Jack Barry went in in February. When graduation took place in June in Mary Woolley Hall. My father went up on the stage and got my diploma.

BRITTANY: That’s so funny.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: But we had no choice if you registered. If you joined something just before you were 18 you had some choices. You know. Good. Okay.

CARALIE: That’s kind of cool how you got to graduate early in a sense.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well they just let us go and then they granted a diploma. Now some towns are giving WWII people high school diplomas now, and 10 years ago. But they did it at the time. Yeah.

CARALIE: That’s cool that they gave it then.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Consequently, high school years were during the height of the war. All we could look forward to would be serving. We didn’t know when it was going to get over. It got over soon after I got in luckily. We didn’t know that, kind of a hectic time. We were thinking about our future.

CARALIE: Did that largely affect every day in high school knowing that the war was going on?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, we kept awful close tabs on it of course. Patriotism was very high in WWII. People who were rejected were frowned upon. And uh, not bullied, but certainly looked down as a four F—as a failure physically. And this was, people wanted to go and get it over with; quite different now.

BRITTANY and CARALIE: Just a little bit.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah.

BRITTANY: And you said you grew up in the center?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yes, I lived at 10 Hadley Street. It’s now the parking lot for the complex at the top. The first house down the hill is 6 Hadley Street—that’s where my father grew up. His father built that house. And then he built one the next one down. And he had a flower shop and a greenhouse. That was his business. Then he went to the post office later. Yeah. 

BRITTANY: So this is a long line of history that you’ve been in South Hadley?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Pardon.

BRITTANY: It’s been a long, it’s been a generational thing that you’ve been in South Hadley?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think so. Uh, my father was born in Waterbury, Connecticut and he moved to South Hadley when he was 6. And then he stayed the rest of his life here. He had one sister. So I stayed here until we got married in ‘52 and then I moved around. And we’ve been in Agawam for 52 or 3 years. So I’ve not had South Hadley connections. I was longer in Agawam than I was in South Hadley. ‘45 to ‘55 Yeah.

CARALIE: Did you like high school. When you’re thinking back on it now, did you like it more?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I liked high school. Yeah. 

BRITTANY: What was it about it that you enjoyed?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, I uh, was a musician. I played trumpet, so I was in the high school marching band. I was in the high school orchestra. And somewhere along the line, probably sophomore…myself and another fellow from town started a dance band. And we had that for two years. We had the greatest fun. We played all over because a lot of musicians were in the service. So they hired kids bands. I remember playing in this auditorium down here the first time and uh, at that time. I guess you could…I don’t know about now, we bought what they called stock arrangements. They’d have three trumpet parts and four saxophone parts and piano and drums. So we had three saxophones, two trumpets and a trombone, drums and piano and a girl singer. And you buy these arrangements and you practice them, you know so forth. So we played a dance here the first time and I’m going to say we didn’t have enough repertoire. Say we had 21 songs and we were going to play 3 in a set. And so many sets. Well, we ran out of. So we’d tell the audience that we had a request for something we had already played.

CARALIE: That’s the best way to do it.

BRITTANY: That’s so funny.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: But we got through it!

CARALIE: Sounds like so much fun though!

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh it is fun. Yeah.

BRITTANY: What about your classes, did you enjoy going to them. Being at school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh yes, it was fun. I uh, I took academic subjects. I didn’t know whether I could go to college or not. But, I wasn’t a bad student, so my father encouraged me to at least try it. So yep. And there were some good teachers here, excellent, yeah, yeah. And I did average I was no pro-merital student, but I was decent.

BRITTANY: What were some of your favorite subjects?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, uh. English we had an excellent teacher who was a Smith graduate. Uh, well reputed in the town and the school. And she challenged us quite a lot. I liked science better, biology and physics. I skipped chemistry to my regret really. I had a choice. The principle of the school taught a course called electronics in place of chemistry. I took physics, but I didn’t take chemistry. And, I liked the electronics course; I got As in it and so forth. Uh but because I never took high school chemistry, I went to UMass after WWII and you had to take chemistry. I didn’t know what ace meant. Starting from oh absolutely zero. It was difficult. Chemistry was not easy for me.

CARALIE: It never is. 

BRITTANY: I know I know.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well I did like sciences and English. Math uh mediocre. I didn’t do well in algebra two, I know. Yeah. And of course we had sports. I didn’t, I played music so I didn’t do…I did go out for football one year and then went to work I guess after school a lot. 

BRITTANY: What did you do for work after school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh, I drove a cleaners truck delivering cleaning. He had a little cleaning establishment. And uh, it was mostly town plus Holyoke. Holyoke was the only city close by and that was where all our recreations were, movies and so forth. Those dances and so forth. Hospital, I was born in a hospital in Holyoke even though I was from South Hadley. There was no hospital here so, Holyoke was our…it was a nice little city then. Yeah, yeah. Excellent

CARALIE: Just a question regarding where you lived. We’ve been told that there was the center and then there were the falls, I think. So how was the difference between?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, it’s all one town. It always was. The center was separated because of its area and the college location and a few stores. Some were related to college, not all. And then the falls was where the seat of government was. The selectmen worked here and so forth. And it was larger. They used to at least, I don’t think it was legal or regulation of any kind. There were always three selectmen, with two from the falls section and one from the center. And so it was kind of balanced. And there was some rivalry, but we all went to high school here. So we became all part of it. Some had to come three miles to school, but some were here so they could walk.

BRITTANY: Did it make a different in friendships at all?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I guess the falls was probably twice the size of the center in population, I’m not positive about that.

CARALIE: So did you take a bus over here?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, we bused on over to the school. We had a regular grammar school up in town in the center, down at the Hadley street there. But uh, for high school four years down here. The bus went down to Ballard Street, down along the river and so forth. There was another bus came down from 116 I guess.

CARALIE: Were there two different grammar schools? One for the falls and one for the center? Or did everyone go to the center?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: No there were several grammar schools, one in the center. There was one in Woodlawn. That’s now where the senior center is. If you know Lyman street. And then there was one up on the corner of Lyman and 202 called the Plains School. And then there was a large Caroo Street school in the falls. That was a big school. The Center was a decent size school. The Plains and the Woodlawn were six grades. So when they became 7^th graders they put half of them in the center and half of them in the falls. How they chose it I don’t know. But our 7^th grade increased in the center by, not a lot, 10 or 12, maybe 20, 15 kids. From either or both the 6^th grade schools. So there were four elementary schools in town. 

(Cutting out talk between Mr. Bennett and us regarding our elementary school experiences/where we live/went to school).

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think Westover was initiated early in the 40s. it was very active. During those years there were a lot of people who came here. In fact they say Azinger, the golfer—Paul, he was kind of over his peak now. They claimed he was born in Holyoke. He was six months here and then went to Florida with his dad.

CARALIE: Just a random question out of nowhere. Did you ever go to any of the reunions?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I go to all the reunions. Our class has had the reputation of having a reunion almost every fifth year. I have probably missed one. But I was treasurer of the class, so I’ve been close enough to south Hadley. I’ve been on a committee all the time. there’s one lady, girl, who can just do this thing tremendously. She will not be chair or anything like that, but she wont let one go by. She rallies us all together. And uh, our class was small there were 75 students. There’s probably 50 alive yet. But we had trouble getting 40 or 50 people through reunion. So when 2000 came along, the millennium, that would be our 55^th, we invited anybody from any class that was in this building while we were here. So we invited people from the class of 42, 3, and 4, ourselves 5, 6, 7, and 8. We had 180 people over at the log cabin. Nice reunion. A lot of fun. 

BRITTANY: So you guys had close relations with all the classes? You guys got along well?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, I…you knew somebody but you didn’t know the whole. You knew several. 44 was a very small class ahead of us. 2 or 3 of those people were in this orchestra, the band that I talked about, the dance band. We had a lot of fun. So we made that contact that way. I guess I didn’t know people in 48 maybe. 47 yes, several were close to us. In a small town you kind of, a lot of friends, you know.

CARALIE: Do most people stay in South Hadley after they graduate?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t know. I don’t think so. Half, maybe?

CARALIE: So is it hard to keep into contact with people?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, some we have trouble. But there’s always somebody we have to make secondary contact. Yeah. We’ve lost track of maybe four out of the 50 or so that are still alive. We just get no response from them, nobody else knows where they are, whether they’re still alive or not. But in general we’ve got a pretty good mailing list and when people move they let us know. A lot go down to Florida, down south.

CARALIE: It’s nice and warm!

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah I call them sissies! I tell them I love to plow snow. Then I say I lie just a little!

CARALIE: Were you ever late to school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: No, if you missed the bus you didn’t go. No, the bus got us here on time. I’m not a late person. I’m early. No, I got here about 10 after 10. Yeah. 

(Cut out conversation re: getting lost) 

CARALIE: Did you ever try to skip school?

BRITTANY: No hooking?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: No, we really liked school. We used to go, there was a little hot dog stand or little restaurant over here on the corner. We used to go there for lunch. Go in the back door and have a hot dog or soda or whatever. 

CARALIE: How long was the school day?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh I can’t tell you. I don’t remember. It had to be 8-2:30 but I’m not sure.

CARALIE: So did you have a good chunk of time to go for lunch? To be able to leave?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, it wasn’t an hour but it was a little over 30 minutes, maybe 40 minutes, 35. And it was close here. I think there was some feeding in here but I never saw it. I’m sure there was some cafeteria somewhere.

CARALIE: Yeah, we were told that there was one and then there wasn’t one. And then there was one. It changes a lot I guess! What did you do once school was over? I know you had the band and everything, but were there other things?

BRITTANY: Extracurricular stuff?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, played sports when we could. But I generally worked. I uh, as I say, I drove this cleaners truck. So he was up the other end of this, you know you go down a couple roads and then go up. A little plant, clean clothes. And he had customers in town plus Holyoke. so he had a ford truck that I…somebody gave to me. It was older than me, somebody had graduated and gave me the job. Asked me if I wanted it. I gave it to someone when I got out. But you go there right after school and he’d give you the orders that were due and you’d go deliver and come back at 5 o’clock. But at that time, I was 16 and driving and I had a car. So I drove then. Before that we were just hitching a ride. A lot of family back and forth. People in town, there was no danger thumbing like there is today. We used to go from that corner home, all the time. Holyoke, we would hitch a ride. It was always somebody knew your father. But then, they got…there was a mill down the street here, on the river, a paper mill, we worked there. We got 62 cents an hour! That was big money! Filenes paid me 35 cents an hour! Can you imagine? You know, people can’t understand. There wasn’t much money going around in those days! And, 50 dollars a week was big, big salary. For crying out loud! I went to UMass after WWII and I worked at Mount Holyoke on the grounds over the summer mowing lawns, digging ditches, and whatever. 50 cents an hour! 20 bucks a week, right. Didn’t sound like much. But, I started smoking when I was 14 or so. Good cigarettes were 2 packages for a quarter! And wings, the cheap ones were 10 cents a package. We didn’t have the 10 cents! Wings was one of the brands. Wings, marvel, and just to feel, lucky, strike, and camels were the good ones. Two for a quarter, regular packs.

(cut out conversation re: still smoking)

BRITTANY: What was your major in college?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I did soil science. I’m a horticulturalist! So I got two degrees from them. And I worked for UMass in what they called their extension service. All land grant universities have an agricultural extension outreach, so that’s what I did. In Massachusetts in West Springfield. So my training was horticulture, greenhouse, nursery, ornamental type things, not fruit or vegetables or animals. So I dealt in this area with all the greenhouses and nurseries, garden centers, some turf. Not too much. And I spent 32 years doing that. And absolutely thoroughly enjoyed it. Nothing I could think of I would have rather done. You know, I didn’t get rich, but school teachers’ wages. That’s what…

(cut out reaction comments by us)

BRITTANY: Do you remember your first day of high school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Kind of yeah, my mother dressed me up in a tie and I remember I had some shoes that were brown and white. Like a saddle…not saddle no. Like the flat top was brown, no that was white and the rest was brown. I thought I was pretty sharp! Yeah. It was a, you know a little nervous experience. Taking the bus for the first time, new school, and new people and so forth. But, they told us where the homeroom was. A’s were here. Bennett was a couple of heads from the corner from the front. After two or three days you met a few people. I was nervous, but that’s just normal.

BRITTANY: Throughout your four years how did you feel about high school? Did it ever change, your ideas about high school? As a senior? Did you have privileges or anything?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Not really, no. we were happy to go. 

BRITTANY: There wasn’t much differentiation between seniors and freshman?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: No, I don’t know of any of that. Maybe there was, but I don’t know. No.

CARALIE: When you were in school, were there any class trips? I know my high school sometimes they bring a whole grade to Washington, D.C. on trips. 

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t remember any. My kids did it, but I don’t remember any no. certainly not the Washington. But there might be, I don’t know. Something else. There was a whole school holiday to go to the Eastern States Exposition, the big e they call it. And schools from all over, they just took us down there for a day. And nobody else was there but kids, what a riot! We spent whatever money we had on food and waited for the racetrack arena to open where they had Lucky Teeter, the guy that did the jumping with cars and jumping over….we had to go and do that you know. And the next day our house had a little…a big lot, that the flower shop was down back and there was kind of a steep little hill, but there was one car level atop flat. After watching these cars going over ramps, we had to do it on our bicycles. So we would race down the hill. We’d make the ramp higher and higher. Jump over. One guy got hurt, lost a kidney. The handlebar, he flopped, the handlebar hit him. It was crazy. We had to do that for a couple days. I’ll never forget one guy, Bob Poli, he was younger than us. And there were four or five of us going down and then coming up the hill, we’d stand and watch and go down. This Bobby Poli came up from down below, he’d watch, and watch. He wanted to go, but he didn’t dare. He had his sister’s bicycle. He finally got up courage enough to go, and by that time, the ramp was pretty high. He went over it all right, and he came down and of course the girls’ bike had no bar between the bars and the seat where the boys did. His didn’t have that, when the wheels came down, the bicycle bent! He bent his sister’s bicycle. We quit after the kid got hurt.

(Cut out random comments made by us)

CARALIE: When you were in school, between classes, what was switching time like? Were there bells? Or did you just go by the time on the clock?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think there was bells…buzzers, yeah, yeah. And it wasn’t too long, but you had enough time. It wasn’t a very big building.

BRITTANY: Was there a lot of socializing in between?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Not so much between classes. some you know, “hi, whatcha doing, I’ll see you after.” Not long conversations though. And we had the usual dances of course. We, I missed a lot of dances because we played in the…we played the music for the dances. We went to some but we missed some too. 

BRITTANY: What were the dances usually like? How were they decorated? What kind of themes?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, they…if it was a Halloween type festivity it would be pumpkins and all. Cornstalks and so forth, orange paper strands. I don’t remember much about decorations. But there was a junior prom and a senior prom and that type of thing. Some of which we played for, so I didn’t go to the dance. 

CARALIE: When you were in high school, where did you see yourself going? What were your dreams?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, I thought I was going to be a musician. I really did. In fact, I actually entered or applied and was accepted at the New England Conservatory after I was getting out of the Coast Guard. But I hadn’t played the trumpet in the service, much. So I got out and started playing again and I just didn’t have the real desire that I thought I had. So I thought if you’re not fully engrossed in the music business, it’s a tough life. You really gotta think about something else. And it always intrigued me that the choice I made as the alternative was horticulture, which my father was in the greenhouse business. And when I was working with him as a kid I didn’t like it very much! It was a chore! But that happened to be there obviously, and I enjoyed it.

(Cutting out his info re: how he moves his plants and plants them, etc and info re: his kids and what they do for a living). 

MZ000003— BLANK

MZ000004—

BRITTANY: So if you just want to walk us around. Whatever you feel like is most important, we’ll follow you and. 

CARALIE: We can go anywhere; we’ve never been in the building before.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well I haven’t been in in 50 years either. But these rooms just look like they were classrooms and I don’t know whether I had French in here, I’m not sure. They all look alike. The auditorium down at the end of the hall, it was a basketball court at times, but it was an auditorium other times. And I’ll never forget December 8, 1941. They brought us all in the auditorium and we heard by radio President Roosevelt’s declaration of war, WWII. That’s something about the infamy, the day of infamy or something, Pearl Harbor attack. Yeah. But,

(Cutting out random talking).

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t know where you want to go.

BRITTANY: Wherever.

CARALIE: Have you ever seen this entrance before?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t recognize it.

BRITTANY: So where is the auditorium?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Way down over there. This was…I think that was a Latin class. It was one big room like the one we were in. I think there were three rooms here, two probably. Algebra was in here. 

CARALIE: How many kids were in a class usually?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well ours was 70…well the total class was 75. But each class, not more than 20, 20, 22… not bad. There were never 50! And there were never 10, I don’t think. Maybe a Spanish class might be 10; 10-20, somewhere in there. I’m trying to remember. There must have been town offices as well as the high school here. But there weren’t many, many divisions. There was the selectmen, maybe the DPW, but there were not any environmental offices I’m sure or anything like that.

CARALIE: Did you ever go in that section when you were in school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well we had to pass it. I think the corner was maybe the selectman’s office. And the principal, I think his office was in that corner, the principal of the school. This is the auditorium. 

CARALIE: So did you play on that stage?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh sure! Yup. And we had a marching band that, you know, performed on Memorial Day. And not too many functions and we’d march. And there was a regular orchestra. Mr. Auld was the music director, both band and orchestra. 

CARALIE: Did you guys have assemblies in here with the whole school?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yup! The whole school could fit in here. If it was, oh 350 it would be tops for the whole four years…300 maybe. 

BRITTANY: Did you just have folding chairs?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah. They were wooden. They would set them up. But we had school dances at night. Basketball was played here. Hoops are gone of course. It wasn’t a…other teams thought it was difficult to win here because they were right up against the wall when they shot. There wasn’t a lot of room; they called it a band box. 

CARALIE: So was the floor wooden?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yes, it was yeah. 

CARALIE: Was the room the same color as it is now?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think so, I don’t know. It was off…you know, muted white probably. Off white. I remember watching basketball games from the balcony. 

CARALIE: Were there speaker systems? Were there microphones when you did concerts?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t remember much in the way of amplification. There must have been for speakers, yeah. For a dance band, no. We just played no microphones.

BRITTANY: With the dances, what else was going on down here? Were there drinks?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t remember any, no. At times we were participating, but I don’t remember any food or drinks.

CARALIE: I always see in movies people doing synchronized dances and stuff. Back then were there big dances that were known? Because we were also told about a sign off dance book where girls tried to get the names of boys that they danced with here, I guess.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, I’ve been to dances where you had a program and specific people. I don’t know how that started or how it really…you brought a date and probably somebody else asked her if they had fourth dance, or fifth dance. 

(Cut out our random comments)

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: But I think the principal to the high school was in the corner office. But the selectman might have been right across in this one.

CARALIE: Was the principal nice when you were here?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, we didn’t think so. But he was alright!

MZ000005—

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Mr. Stevens, he taught that electronics course and uh, he had a couple boys who were ahead of me. They went to school here. The guy who I liked very much was the assistant principal, he taught civics and that type of thing. Tom. He also coached football. Daniel Conner, well liked, well liked. He was more uh, one of the boys, you know. Mr. Stevens was kind of formal. He had to do it I supposed.

CARALIE: Are those from the high school? (Pointing to box of trophies, etc).

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Probably. 1945 we won the small schools tournament, basketball. We had a good team. Herbert W Bennett, WWI. 

CARALIE: Did you know that was up there?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I guess I must have. But I was surprised to see it today. I guess I had seen it. Oh yeah. 

CARALIE: That’s really cool. 

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: They kept this old building really nice. I don’t know when it was built but. It’s old! Uh, I guess we had biology downstairs. I haven’t been downstairs in years. Do you want to try that?

MZ000006—

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Maybe this is where…there were a couple classrooms here I think. See you wouldn’t recognize them now because they changed them around. Yeah, that was a classroom. 

CARALIE: Were the desks attached to each other? Were they just a table and a chair? 

BRITTANY: How was the classroom usually set up?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t know. No I don’t remember. We had a desk and a chair whether they were movable I don’t know.

CARALIE: Were they comfortable?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, I thought so.

 BRITTANY: Did you guys pass notes at all?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh sure!

CARALIE: Did you guys have lockers in the halls? Or did you just carry your stuff with you?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I never had a locker. I don’t know whether there were any or not. 

BRITTANY: What did this look like?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t recognize it no.

BRITTANY: How is it different?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well it just seems new to me.

CARALIE: Maybe it’s the section that had town hall.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Maybe. There are a lot of petitions that are new I suppose. That’s a conference room now, must have been an office of some kind. No I recognize that corner room, that’s about all. 

CARALIE: Did you have classes upstairs too?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh yeah. 

CARALIE: Would you want to go up there?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Uh, think it looks any different? No. how many of these have you done?

CARALIE: This is our first one!

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: First one!?!

CARALIE: Yeah, and I think we’re the first ones of the entire class.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh is that right. I’m number one! That’s good!

MZ000007—

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh lets see what the upstairs looked like.

CARALIE: Were the classrooms warm?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh yeah, as I remember it. 

BRITTANY: What was the main entrance?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think there were these two doors, similar. 

CARALIE: Did the busses drop you off right in front?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Right, yeah. Yup right in front. Athletic fields across the street.

RANDOM MAN: Went to school here?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I did yes; I was trying to remember some of the things. I haven’t been here in 50 years I guess.

RANDOM MAN: Yeah, yeah, well that’s pretty cool. It must be strange to come back into the building.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, they’ve kept the building nice though. I think! It’s old.

RANDOM MAN: It’s old, it looks it, and it is.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I don’t know when it was built, do you?

RANDOM MAN: No I don’t.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well I was here during the 40s; wasn’t new then.

RANDOM MAN: No, no, I think it’s like 100 years old.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Probably, yeah.

RANDOM MAN: It’s old, but it’s a nice building.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: It’s excellent. Sure. Yeah. No I was telling them, December 8, 41 they brought us all in here and we listened to the radio of President Roosevelt declaring war 

RANDOM MAN: Wow, geeze, that must have been something, well…you still remember it.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yep. Yep. The day of Pearl Harbor we were sitting in a car up in the common near center. Four or five of us and we heard it on the radio and I remember the reaction was “those slant eyes; we can take care of them in two weeks. We’ll beat them in two weeks.” As kids…you know. Four years, didn’t it? Awful! Yeah, let’s see what the upstairs looked like!

MZ000008—

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: You got me interested now. Oh yeah, this looks familiar. Oh yeah, this is…yeah I had English down in the corner. Then math, algebra two, across the hall. Oh yeah. 

CARALIE: Did you guys have posters on the wall and stuff? 

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, I think so. 

CARALIE: Were the teachers allowed to decorate their own rooms like they are now?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I think so. Yeah.

WOMAN: Can I help you?

BRITTANY and MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Just looking around!

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I haven’t been here in 50 years!

WOMAN: Yeah, well… they’re my parents before me, and I was here.  This was a study hall.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Uh huh.

WOMAN: Take that wall out and it was a big study hall.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yeah, a big study hall, right.

WOMAN: Senior study hall.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Yep. I remember that. I had English with Ms. Driscoll across the hall.

WOMAN: Oh gosh, yes. Can you believe, my mother was Ms. Driscoll’s first year out of school? 1922. And even I had Ms. Driscoll and even I graduated in 59.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, I was 45. I had her. Yep. Good teacher. Was she a smith graduate? 

WOMAN: Yes

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT:  I believe so. These girls are Mount Holyoke. 

WOMAN: That’s fine.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: They’re interviewing the old timers.

WOMAN: Oh I had called too, that’s wonderful. My mother had a beauty shop above the drug store. So I remember the commons. Of course I was here in the early 40s and 50s. That’s great. This oral history I really think is wonderful. And your name sir?

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Bill Bennett.

WOMAN: Bill Bennett.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Class of 45.

WOMAN: Your Mother!

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: 10 Hadley Street I grew up on.

WOMAN: God forbid. 

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Josephine.

WOMAN: You and I could continue on for the next …my mother was Millie O’Conner. She had the beauty shop. 

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh sure, sure. Yeah, my mother came from Ireland.

WOMAN: Yes, oh she sure did! And my girls, I had three daughters. And they continually stopped to see your mother.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: She lasted until 93. 

WOMAN: My mother went until 90. She was the last of the Gainey’s (sp?).

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Millie, yes I remember Millie, sure!

WOMAN: She was the last to pass in 1998.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: I was telling them…

WOMAN: We could have a good oral history….because he was the most handsome guy…and I wasn’t that much younger

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: In high school I worked at Filenes. And they had the contract for the wave group at Mount Holyoke.

WOMAN: Oh you read Jack Crokes (sp?) book.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Oh I did read it. I’m a good friend of Jack. But I was stock boy for Filenes knocking the boxes apart. And the waves wore uniforms. And Filenes had the contract with the uniforms. They were housed in Rocky. And they had three tailors that fitted them to the uniforms. And I was knocking the boxes apart, about 14 years old or something.

WOMAN: And that was a big deal back then. Gosh I probably haven’t seen you in 50 years.

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well I’ve been in Agawam 55 years now. Jack Croke…

(Cut out talking re: jack’s book and the College Inn—has good info if we go that way)

MZ000009—

MR. WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, you got a little more. Well, there was no elevator! I’ll tell you that! I’m pleased the way they’ve maintained this building though.

(Cut out, our goodbyes and final talking)

Remembering South Hadley High SchooL: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Caralie Cahill

Spring 2007

(In the middle of paragraphs– . . . = random unimportant comments cut out)

(MZ 1)

. . . (cut out my description of project)

Caralie: Just to start out, what class year were you in?

Shirley Martin: I graduated in the class of ’45, 1945.

. . .  (cut out discussion of other interviewee—her classmate)

Caralie: So are you in charge of running those? [question re: reunions]

Shirley Martin: We’ve had a lot of fun and keep track of everybody and see where they are

. . .  (cut out talk on reunions)

Caralie: Is that your yearbook from your senior year?

Shirley Martin: Yes , it’s my class of ’45. Look how old! Class of ’45 can’t even read it anymore. Yeah, and it’s got some pictures of the town hall. You know. And. He was the, he was a swell guy Dan Connors. And these are some cartoons that a fella that I went, that was in our class at school, made these, drew these pictures

Caralie: Are they of certain people?

Shirley Martin: They’re of teachers, yeah they’re of different teachers.

Caralie:  Any teachers you had?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, Mrs. Walsh and Ms. Driscoll. She was tall and she was short. And, this is Mrs. Pratt, she taught French. And Priscilla was chemistry. And Mr. Foley, he had just had a baby. And I forget who that is, Elms College, I forget who that is. And that’s Danny Connors. And this was the principal. And this was the dean of girls but she also taught French. And the vice principal Danny Connors, he also taught economics and things like that. And then this was the rest of the staff, so we were able at a couple of our reunions, some of the staff we found about three reunions ago and they came to it. Yeah, but uh, and then these are just the listings of the classes and our class officers and favorites this and favorites that. You know, and all our pictures of course. The reason the book is such a mess is I had torn out our class to bring it to the, to have photocopies made so we could have badges every time.

Caralie: Oh, with peoples pictures so you could recognize them?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yeah. So I had fun with that. 

Caralie: I’m guessing it would be difficult without those to see who was who!

Shirley Martin: Yeah, the good thing was we had them every five years so we kind of remembered from year to year who most of the people were.

Caralie: Did you have it the first five years out too?

Shirley Martin: Yep. . . and in fact the place we had it then isn’t even there anymore. The old red barn. . . It was in Willamansit and it’s, I think it’s where that hill facility is now, Medical West or something. But there used to be a big, big red barn and it was for banquets and stuff, that was where we had our fifth year. It was funny, we liked to include every year, in things like, I think it was our class night. Or no, it was, one of our reunions anyhow, and we had lobster and steak. And lobster was two and a half dollars! Can you believe it? So we used to show a comparison, you know, on the prices!

Caralie: So you must have a lot of cool information on how stuff changes over time!

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah! Amazing! 

. . . (cut some stuff out regarding renting spaces for reunions)

Shirley Martin: I was in the hotel business most of my career, like fifty five years, and nobody charges you to use the hall, just the food you’ve selected to be served. We’ve had them at, we’ve had them at two of the hotels where I’ve worked. And we’ve had them at the Yankee Pedlar, we’ve had them all over.

. . . (cut some stuff out regarding places where reunions held)

Shirley Martin: You gotta remember too though, that we were very small classes. You know, I think it was like 73 in our class, and now the classes, the high schools are much larger. But we were only 73 people, so you knew everybody. And you had probably gone all the  way through grammar school into high school with them so you knew everybody, it was very close.

Caralie: And were you close with the other grades too?

Shirley Martin: Yes, yes. Actually the only people we met for the first time, and then that wasn’t necessarily true, was the people that came down from the center for high school because they went to grammar school up in the center area near where the college is, which there isn’t even any schools up there now. But we knew them just from being in town. You know, everybody knew each other 

(MZ 2)

Shirley Martin: years ago.

Caralie: Small town. 

Shirley Martin: Yeah.

Caralie: Did that create cliques and stuff when people came from other places?

Shirley Martin: Not really, you know. I was talking to somebody the other day and I was saying how amazing is it, and I don’t know if I’m judging by television programs or movies or what, but, we didn’t. Now, we had pals, people that were pals that stayed close pals all through and walked to school together, you know and things like that. But there really weren’t cliques so to speak. Everybody did everything together, it was good. It was good. 

Caralie: It’s better than it is now probably.

Shirley Martin: It seems to be different when you see some of these programs out, kids are so mean to each other and everything, and I don’t know if that went on, but I never experienced any of it. And I had a few friends that were really, really close to me, but still every time we did something there was a whole bunch and even with underclassmen, we were pals. You know? So,

Caralie: Was there ever any hazing, I guess, between the classes?

Shirley Martin: No! No. Again as I say, I never saw or witnessed or partook in any of it. I really don’t think so because there wasn’t that kind of an atmosphere or need to do something like that. It was in the day where if you had a fault with someone you went up to that someone and you discussed it with them. You would say “hey I heard you said this and this about me” and you ironed it out. You just didn’t let it sit and fester. 

Caralie:  Didn’t fight.

Shirley Martin: Yeah.    

Caralie: Were there ever any fights in school between guys?

Shirley Martin: You know, if there were I never saw any. It was amazing, even the guys were pals. Most of them played on the teams together, so they were teammates, so they had that bondage. I never saw any of that. I never saw any of that. I enjoyed high school. You hear people saying how they hated high school, but I enjoyed high school. I was an only child, not that that has anything to do with it, but I just enjoyed it all. We had good times, everybody went to the games, and everybody came to the dances.

Caralie: Where were the games?

Shirley Martin: Here! Here.

Caralie: Oh! Really?

Shirley Martin: Basketball was in here, football was across the street in the beach grounds. And, oh yeah. I even sat up in the balcony. And the baskets were at each of these two ends here. And this was basketball.

Caralie: And were there windows still there too? 

Shirley Martin: Yeah, they had guards on them, yeah they had guards on them. And physical education was in here. Physical education was very minimal, it wasn’t a lot of it. I mean, at the time we didn’t have showers or anything like that. 

Caralie:  So you can’t sweat, 

Shirley Martin: Yeah, it wasn’t very strenuous. And I don’t think enough attention was probably paid to physical education, but that, this is where you’d have it.

Caralie: Did you have special teachers that were just gym teachers, or did they teach other things?

Shirley Martin: There was a physical ed. teacher, she wasn’t here all the time, she came in just when the classes were scheduled. And the basketball had a coach, which was the vice principal, Danny Connors. And football had a coach. And yeah, they all, the teams had coaches, and physical ed. was physical ed. But the rest of the teachers were the same year round in the other classes.

Caralie: And did people tend to like gym, or was it one of those dreaded things?

Shirley Martin: Well, like I said it wasn’t so strenuous, it wasn’t very difficult. You didn’t have to climb ropes, you didn’t have to climb walls, you didn’t. It was probably just standing up doing these kind of things. There was very little to it, but still you tried to get out of it.

Caralie: Did you guys ever have, sometimes at my high school we had like a national test kind of a thing to see what kind of shape you were in. You would have to bend over and touch your toes, and see how. . . 

Shirley Martin: No. Not while I was in school, not while I was in high school here. But I walked to school, I wasn’t a bus person. And I lived not too close. But the busses picked up people really mostly up in the center. Everybody else just walked.

Caralie: Was it hard when it was snowing and raining and stuff, to walk?

Shirley Martin: Well, you know, it’s like you see these kids saying they tell their grandchildren, “well, when I was going to school I had snow drifts this high.” It was true, but you did it. You did it. It was what you were used to.

Caralie: Would you bring a change of clothes, to bring. No? Or boots or anything?

Shirley Martin: No. Well, boots you’d have to wear, you know, and stuff like that. The boots we had though, I don’t remember bringing shoes in place of them. So,

Caralie: Wore ‘em all day?

Shirley Martin: I don’t know what we did, we probably wore them all day! But I had, no matter which way I went home,  I had a steep hill to go each way I could go home, but you never thought anything of it, 

Caralie: Just something you do?

Shirley Martin: You were used to it. You were used to it.

Caralie: When you got to school did you have somewhere you could put your stuff? Or did you have to carry it around with you?

Shirley Martin: No, you carried it around. We didn’t, the girls didn’t seem to carry pocketbooks. You know, we had our bag, our school bag, we had our books, everything else you shoved in your pockets. They weren’t, we weren’t carrying around makeup and all the things that seem to be necessary today. We were very bare bones I guess.

Caralie: So would girls ever meet in the bathroom and talk?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, 

(MZ 3)

Caralie: Fix themselves up,

Shirley Martin: Yeah, to some degree maybe a combing or something like that. But I don’t remember much of a fuss being made about makeup. I remember once, one girl, Jeanne Ruff, she was uh, she had some physical problems, so she was short and she was a “Heller”, we called her a “Heller.” She was the first one to get into trouble if anyone was to get into trouble in school. She had red hair, and she was vibrant and, and uh, she was a hot ticket. And she was the only one I ever remember got caught smoking in the girls rest room. And uh, I don’t even remember who caught her. And she was disciplined for it, you know. One of our, I think it was, about maybe our, maybe the fifteenth reunion or so, and she passed away after that. But she was funny! She was funny.

Caralie: So were they strict about smoking? Could you smoke outside? Or was it just, 

Shirley Martin: Well, it wasn’t a big thing then. You know we really, I didn’t smoke. I’m sure a lot of the guys did, but they probably sneaked it too and probably got caught that I wasn’t aware of. But she’s the only girl I remember getting caught.

Caralie: And did people get into trouble for other things too?

Shirley Martin: For what? Well, no. You know, we didn’t do too much. We were, I’m sorry to say we were probably pretty dull. We were probably pretty dull when you look at it. I don’t know. I know with me, personally, I loved my mom and dad so much I just never wanted to do anything that would hurt them, and that was always in my mind. And we had good relationships. There was a family in town called the Nolan’s, and the father was Judge, he was a Judge in the Ware district court, and he also had a Law Office with his, with his brother. And they lived up on North Main Street, and they had a son named William Nolan who went on to become a doctor, and he wrote several best selling books about learning to become a doctor and they had a son Jimmy and a couple of daughters. And they had a big play room in their cellar with a ping pong table and a record player. And we all kind of gathered there, they made it kind of homey for us kids to come. And a couple of the guys even formed a little band. And we played ping pong, and sat around and talked and did nothing dangerous, of course the mother and father were upstairs. But, they welcomed it, and it was a good environment for the crowd that I was pretty much hanging around with. And we talk about it today, what a good life that was, you know.  We were off the street, we weren’t getting in trouble. And they were a good family. Not too many of them left now, just Mary and her sister I think.

Caralie: So do you still see some of the people you hung out with now?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, well a lot of the people would come to our reunions from other classes. Yeah, and finally in the year 2000, because it was such a memorable year, what we did was we invited the other people that were in school when we were. So we were the class of ’45 so, we invited ‘47 ‘46 ‘48 ‘42 and everybody that was around us that was in school at the same time as we were, when we were freshman, sophomore, junior, senior. And we had a huge gathering, the biggest that we’ve ever had, naturally. Because we had all these schools combined.

 . . (cut out talking about getting in contact, etc.)

Shirley Martin: It was great, because you got to see people you went to school with, but they weren’t in your class, but you knew them. So it was a great reunion. Everyone had a great time visiting with each other and everything. So it brought back a lot of memories then too.

. . . (cut out more talking about millennium reunion)

(MZ 4)

Shirley Martin: When our class had won, uh basketball championship there were a lot of pictures and newspapers, we had all that. We’ve got a big purple box. We call it “the purple box” and every reunion, we stick all our records and all our stuff all in it, you know. 

. . .(cut out more about the purple box)

Shirley Martin: My memories are all good, from here. 

Caralie: Better when they’re good rather than bad!

Shirley Martin: Yeah! Exactly.

Caralie: How long has your family lived in South Hadley?

Shirley Martin: I’m born and raised here.

Caralie: Born and raised?

Shirley Martin: Yup. I moved away for a little while to Ohio, but then I came back, and uh, born and raised.

Caralie: And did a lot of people you know stay here after they graduated?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, because there’s a, when we contact them for the reunions, we have a bunch of South Hadley addresses, we have a bunch of surrounding town, and we have a lot of out of town that always came to the reunions. From Florida, from everywhere.

Caralie: Sounds like a dedicated class!

Shirley Martin: Yeah, well, you know like I say, there was good, it was good companionship because you knew everybody. I remember you could walk the streets of South Hadley and you knew everybody that was on the street that you bumped into. You knew them and they knew you. That’s not the same of course anymore.

Caralie: Did you ever just walk up and down the street and. . .?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, when I was little my mother tells me that I loved the bridge, the old bridge that was here. There was another bridge before the bridge was here, it was very, very old with big spans on it and everything. And we walked to Holyoke all the time to go roller skating, to go to the movies, we walked across that bridge. But when I was very young, they tell me that I used to love to look at the water and so I would start to watch over the bridge and the chief of police at the time, Mr. Pot, he’d, he’d round me up and bring me home, because everybody knew everybody.

Caralie: So you could just wander around?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, and you didn’t have to worry. I wandered one time down at the old brick yard, which is where there’s a bank there now and all that. But there used to be a brick yard, they used to make bricks. And on the same property, there was a, a stable with horses that were rented out for riding, nothing compared to what they have at Mount Holyoke College of course, and some people boarded their horses there. So when I was about, I don’t know, 7 or 8 I think, I wandered down there, to see the horses. And the man that operated it, name was Jimmy Wall, he had been a Calgary guy in WWI. And he took care of the horses and everything, so he called my mother and father to tell them where I was. So, he taught me to ride horses and then when I got a little older, he let me take the horses out to exercise them. And it was a great life. I’d take the horses home, tie them to the back porch, and have lunch. 

Caralie: That’s awesome!

Shirley Martin: But you know, that was the kind of comradeship that was there. Everybody knew everybody. Didn’t worry about where you went, of course you must have heard this before, you didn’t lock your doors. None of that was done. There was no fear. 

Caralie: And was Holyoke different?

Shirley Martin: Very different, very different. In fact, I had several very good friends that lived in the flats, and I would walk across the bridge and go to the flats to go to her house. I would never do that now.

Caralie: Probably wouldn’t walk there now, right?

Shirley Martin: No! Never. But you didn’t worry about it, there was nothing. They were all, an awful lot of Irish Catholic lived there at the time. But, uh and she went to school in Holyoke, she didn’t go to school with me. But I had got to know her through dancing, we used to go dancing and everything. Great times. Great times.

Caralie: Was the school population diverse? Or was it mostly, 

Shirley Martin: No, mostly whites, 

Caralie: Everyone the same? 

Shirley Martin: Caucasian, yeah. I don’t ever remember there being any blacks or Spanish. At that time there wasn’t any in South Hadley anyhow. And I don’t know why and there wasn’t that many either in Holyoke, you know. As years went, there was one black family in Holyoke I can always remember, their name was White-something, I forget what it was now. But they had a very large family, and their kids were good kids, and they went on to play sports in Holyoke, and that’s the only black family I ever remember being in Holyoke. But no, there just wasn’t, there just wasn’t any. We were all the same. I don’t know. I don’t think that there was every any racism or anything like that. Of course we didn’t have anybody of a different culture that went to school with us, but you just  didn’t have the contact. 

. . . (cut stuff out regarding people being nice)

Caralie: Were you in clubs and stuff when you were in school?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, you know, I was in well I was pro-merital, and they had their own club you know, I  

(MZ 5)

Shirley Martin: I couldn’t sing, so I didn’t join any of those groups. I have pictures of some of the different groups here. I didn’t do any signing though. But I was a majorette.

Caralie: What’s that?

Shirley Martin: You know, you have the baton and twirl it and you march in the parade, I was a part of the band in that respect. And twirled the baton.

Caralie: So did you have a fun outfit with that?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, we had a lot of fun with it. This great big tall, slim, regal looking man by the name of Bill O’Brien taught it at a building in Holyoke. And so myself and a girlfriend, we went over and we learned how to do it and then we joined the band and we became the twirlers. 

Caralie: Sounds like fun!

Shirley Martin: Yeah, it was! We went anywhere the band went, you know.

Caralie:  So would you do that in here when they had assemblies and stuff?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yup. But mostly, we used to have a lot of parades in South Hadley, we had parades for everything. The Halloween parade, the memorial day parade, the Saint Patrick’s day parade. We had a parade for everything and you’d march in all of them.

Caralie: Would there be a big crowd watching?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah! Everybody came out for it! Everybody came out! It was a big thing

Caralie: Sounds like fun! Did you have floats too? Or was it mostly,

Shirley Martin: No. It was mostly just the high school band, and the veterans. It wasn’t ever anything big. The kids at Halloween, they called it the rag shag parade, and the kids all marched in their costumes with the band. You know, things like that.

Caralie: Sounds like fun!

Shirley Martin: Nothing big, huge. Little town stuff. 

Caralie: Do they not do that anymore, I’m guessing?

Shirley Martin: No, no. I think for uh, what they do now for Halloween is they have stuff here in the Town Hall for kids. But uh, they don’t go marching around.    

Caralie: And did you have Halloween themed dances in here and stuff?

Shirley Martin: We had proms, we had a spring dance, and a fall dance. Not a Halloween dance per say, but there was always a decorating committee, that came in with their crepe paper and did their thing, nothing elaborate again.

Caralie: Was it good decorations?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, well we thought they were. We probably didn’t know any better.

Caralie: Did this room look pretty much the same?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, really there’s been no um physical changes in this room that I can see, like I say except for having guards on the windows. Because they played the sports here, the balcony is still there. The stage is the same. 

Caralie: Could a lot of the school fit up there, or the whole school fit up on the balcony?

Shirley Martin: Well they sat back here, and they sat up there, and it was always full at the games.

Caralie: Really? Did you have to pay to get into the games?

Shirley Martin: No, no. And when it was the football it was right across the street in the beach grounds, and they had several bleachers all around, you didn’t pay for that either you know.

Caralie: That’s pretty nice!

Shirley Martin: Yeah!   

Caralie: Were your teams good?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, we won, we won several championships, oh yeah. I forget which ones, but I know they won some! Oh here’s the home economics! Here’s the band! Oh, there I am!

Caralie: Which one are you?

Shirley Martin: Right there!

Caralie: Oh cool! In your outfit, 

Shirley Martin: Yeah! And these are the two other girls, Irene, yeah.Yeah we had boots, and satin, this was all satin. And a hat. 

Caralie: That looks like an awesome outfit! So did you get to go in front of the band?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah! Oh yeah. We marched first. Home economics, I didn’t belong to that. I thought that, the orchestra, I didn’t belong to that. Sixteen Girls, that was another, they were another new music group. The man that was in charge of the music, there’s Bill Bennett! Student Activities Society, there’s Bill! Yeah. Student Activities Society, and the Sixteen Girls was another singing group. Orchestra, glee club, band, the only think I was in was the band! Yeah, the art club, there weren’t that many clubs obviously. This is one of the proms, you know, and then the athletics, yeah. There’s the football team, cheerleaders, 

Caralie: Were the cheerleaders good?

Shirley Martin: Nah! They didn’t do anything compared to what they do today! They just stood there and did these kind of things, really. That’s all it was! But they were considered crème of the crop!

Caralie: Did they wear their cheerleading outfits around school?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, if they were going to be playing, doing it that day. 

. . .(cut out more talking about cheerleaders, football team)

Shirley Martin: There’s physical education! There’s, the boys.

Caralie: Oh! Okay, so that’s probably in here, right?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, it is in here, but the floor was wood!

Caralie: Wooden, because it has the basketball,

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yeah. We had a great little baseball team, and here’s the basketball team. There’s, here’s South Hadley, they beat  Hopkins in basketball one year, that was a big deal! 

Caralie: Did you have big rivalries with other places?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, but they were all little schools. Like, you know, we, we uh, these are just pictures of guys that went in the service and stuff. Um, we played like Hopkins Academy, a lot of these schools that are in the boonies, you know. Smaller schools,  because we were small. We were small. Now they play bigger schools because they’re bigger.

(MZ 6)

Caralie: Were adults involved in the games too, would they come and watch? Parents?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, sometimes, my parents didn’t. Well, they worked too, you know, so.

Caralie: Did you have a school committee with parents on it, or, I don’t know what it’s called, but?

Shirley Martin: No. Nothing like that.

. . . (cut out discussion of teachers at reunions)

Caralie: Did you have a favorite teacher?

Shirley Martin: Oh, I don’t know. I think, there were a lot of them I liked. They were good teachers, they were very good teachers. I thought. There never seemed to be, there never seemed to be too many problem kids, you know, we were good kids. What can I say. But they were good teachers. Everyone seemed to like Danny Connors who was the vice principal, and the football coach, or uh, one of the coaches. And everybody liked him, he was a regular guy, I liked him because he kind of looked like my father. And Mr. Foley was strict, very, very strict. Very strict in his classes, but an excellent teacher! Excellent teacher. 

Caralie: What did he teach? 

Shirley Martin: He taught history, and he was well liked, but he was kind of feared. But he never did anything mean or anything, it’s just he was strict, he told you he wanted this and this done. And homework, we had homework. But I don’t think we had the homework like kids seem to have today. You see them going with backpacks that could break a mule, you know, we had homework but it was never anything huge. But they were all pretty good teachers, really. I liked them all.

Caralie: So for homework, would you have readings to do?

Shirley Martin: Yeah it would be like, you did in grammar school almost, read chapter this and chapter that. And math, I don’t really remember homework so much in that. One of the guys, Bosworth, that taught math went on to teach at Holyoke. He also started a little ski club. We went skiing a few times at Blanford with him, and so, but it never made it into the yearbook because it didn’t last too long. When he left it kind of broke up. But no, they were all good teachers. The only one I didn’t have as a teacher was Maybelle Pratt who was the dean of girls, and everyone was kind of scared of her for some reason, but I don’t know why. But I didn’t take French, so I didn’t have her and that’s all she taught.

Caralie: Did you take Spanish?

Shirley Martin: They didn’t have it then!

Caralie: Oh, really??

Shirley Martin: Nope. They didn’t offer it. 

Caralie: So French was,  

Shirley Martin: French was the only language.

Caralie: So, you could say yes or no to it, but you didn’t have to?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, you didn’t have to, so I didn’t. 

Caralie: Did you get to decide what you would take every year, or did they say you have to take English?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, you could lay it out, but then you would have a class advisor that would help you if you had any problems. But you didn’t have a lot of one on one with counselors and things like that. The only time you had a counselor, I guess was if you had a real serious problem, and I don’t know of anybody that did. I’m sure somebody did, but not that I’m aware of. I sailed through pretty happy.

Caralie: That’s good! Did you have a favorite subject even though you didn’t have a favorite teacher?

Shirley Martin: I liked history. Math I didn’t care for, and to this day I don’t care for. But I liked everything else. And then, I switched. I took commercial, what they call, they had, all’s they had was a general course, a college course, and a commercial course. And so, one year I had switched to commercial, so I took typing. They didn’t have computers don’t forget. 

Caralie: Typewriters.

Shirley Martin: Typewriters. And, but then the following year I went back to college. 

Caralie: So, what was the difference?

Shirley Martin: I thought I wanted to be a nurse. So, I did biology and all that stuff. Everybody liked biology and chemistry. I liked chemistry, I liked, we liked that teacher too. He was a good teacher.

Caralie: So did you have a good lab to do experiments?

Shirley Martin: Not very, it’s upstairs, it was upstairs, over that office up there. And it was not very big, actually. You can imagine back then, not only were these rooms kind of small, the classes were small. 

Caralie: More one on one?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yeah. I don’t remember doing anything dangerous. 

Caralie: Did you guys do any dissections?

Shirley Martin: In biology yeah. Everybody oohed and aahed about that. But it was just a one time thing, and didn’t make too much of it

Caralie: Get over it, 

Shirley Martin: Yeah, get over it. It didn’t seem to bother, don’t forget, there was a lot of farmlands around here. Country living so to speak. And a lot of that stuff you were used to pretty much, too. A lot of people

(MZ 7)

Shirley Martin: Were used to. So, it didn’t seem to bother us much, that I can remember, you know.

Caralie: Did you have a job after school?

Shirley Martin: Oh, I used to go up to the college inn. I worked at the college inn when I was at high school. And, of course it was a lot different. And then I had a little job. There was a lady that lived in the brick house that was right over there that was blind. And somebody asked me if I would like to go over, and I would read to her whatever she wanted read, and she would do it on her Braille typewriter. So I did, and it was 50 cents an hour, and that was big money. 50 cents an hour just to read to the woman so she could type in Braille. 

Caralie: What did other jobs tend to pay back then?

Shirley Martin: Oh god, I think. What did we get, 15 cents up at the college inn. 

Caralie: Oh wow! Did you get tips though, hopefully?!?

Shirley Martin: No, no. I was kind of a jack of all trades. I cleaned the tables, I helped cook, I helped do dishes. Back then they had kids doing all that kind of stuff, there weren’t, and you worked normal hours. You weren’t working at night and stuff like that. And I babysat through high school a lot. 

. . . (cut out actor talk)

Shirley Martin: Babysitting, and college inn. Any little thing like that. 

Caralie: Things that kept you busy. 

Shirley Martin: Yeah.

Caralie: And you said you hung out in the basement with the, 

Shirley Martin: Nolan Family, yeah.

Caralie: Did you do other things too?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, well, mostly we just played ping pong, and played records, and danced and gabbed. And then went down the corner store for a soda and back up again. It was fun, it was, just gabbing, not doing anything really magnificent, just hanging out. Hanging out was a lot different then than hanging out now! 

Caralie: Less internet, TVs!

Shirley Martin: Yeah, didn’t have any of that!

Caralie: Did the school ever take the class on class trips anywhere?

Shirley Martin: No, didn’t do that. At least I didn’t do that. I don’t remember. That’s not to say there wasn’t with some club or something might have done something. But, uh, I didn’t.

Caralie: Did you guys have projects and stuff too, like group projects you had to do with people? I know you had homework, but like presentations or anything like that?

Shirley Martin: No, bare bones I guess. 

Caralie:  I wish I could have had that!

Shirley Martin: No, we really didn’t. you might have to get up in class, you know, and say something, but not in a project sense, no.

Caralie: Did you ever have a public speaking class? Or anything on manners?

Shirley Martin: No. None of that. The closest you’d get to that was we had a home economics class. And she would not only teach a little bit of cooking, but there would be a little bit of manners, or a little bit of something like that. A dash of this and a dash of that. And it all came under home economics. And very few people took the course.  

Caralie: Did guys ever take that?

Shirley Martin: 1 or 2. 1 or 2 did. Yeah, but they were laughed at. And they would do it I think mostly as a joke because it was all girls, so that’s why they would take it. Isn’t that silly, huh?

. . .(cut out her greeting with someone else)  

Shirley Martin: That was downstairs way in the back, downstairs. Home economics, in the, in the room that goes down.

. . .(cut out my random comments re: seeing the room)

Caralie: Did they have ovens and stuff too?
Shirley Martin: God, I don’t remember, there was a stove, so the stove must have had an oven. I only took it one year. I don’t remember much about it 

. . . (cut out my comments re: my home ec.)

Caralie: I’ve been told, and you mentioned it a little bit how there’s a different school and everything, so when people came in 

(MZ 8)

Caralie: they’d have friends from the other school, I’m guessing. So did it take a while to get to know people?

Shirley Martin: No, because mostly where they just came from was the center.

Caralie: Oh, so you’d probably know them already?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, like down here there was, well the two schools I went to are no longer there. I went to the old Caroo and the new Caroo, which was where Texon or whatever that company is now. First they tore down the old one that had 1^st 2^nd and 3^rd grade. And then the new Caroo had 4 through 8, and that was in the days, Bessie Skinner was the principal and she was this heavy set old lady. We thought she was ancient, she probably wasn’t, but we thought she was ancient. She was kind of heavy set, dressed very matronly, and she was strict. If you did something wrong, if one of the teachers reported you to her, she had a little office behind her classroom, you’d go in there and you’d get spanked with a ruler on your hand.

 . . . (cut out talk re: that never happening now)

Shirley Martin: But those were the days when they also gave you a cod-liver oil pill, and you could sign up to get milk every day at school, but your lunch you had to bring, or go home for lunch. 

Caralie: Is that the same at the high school, you had to bring your own?

Shirley Martin: In high school, you had, what the hell did we do with high school? You had to bring your lunch, you had to bring your lunch, or go home. And they had two little stores that are no longer there. And one was my aunts, Mary’s Kitchen and the other one was Fords, where my mother used to work once in a while. And they were right in the complex there in town. And most of us would go over there and have something to eat and then come back. 

Caralie: And back then was it expensive, or did you have an allowance, and your work money helped? 

Shirley Martin: No, yeah. Your, if you were going to have lunch there, your parents always gave you money to have, you know.

Caralie: Works out nicely! Do you know how long lunch was?

Shirley Martin: I think it was, well it would have to be minimum of a half an hour. I don’t remember for sure. It could have ever even been three quarters of an hour, because they knew a lot of kids would go home, and then came back. The ones that lived close by always went home. 

Caralie: And at that time would they usually have mothers at home?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yeah. Like, my mother worked. But like I said, when she got older, she’d work out in Fords kitchen. So, I’d tell her in the morning if I could find out from the other kids how many of us were going, and we’d order ahead of time so she’d have it all ready for us when we came in,

Caralie: Way to beat the rush!

Shirley Martin: we were kind of privileged. But don’t forget, again as I say, there was a lot less going to school, you weren’t dealing with 100, 150, 200 kids. You know, much smaller.

. . . (cut out some of my minor comments) 

Caralie: Did you have any kids that attended the newer high school? Did you see that in comparison to this high school?

Shirley Martin: My children went to the new high school, my own children.

Caralie: And have you seen that school, or been in it?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah! Several times,

Caralie: Did you like it compared to this one?

Shirley Martin: Oh! Well, you can’t compare it, you know. You have to, as you know, there was not only us here, there was a few town offices here. We always came in on the other door, not this one. We always came in on the other one. And I think that was the only one where they had an office, the school office was on the right where the school secretary was, and the principal. But the principal taught too, sometimes so he wasn’t always there. But I think that one was where the town had an office, and I was trying to remember where their other offices were, they must have had more than one. 

Caralie: So were you told to stay away from those offices? 

Shirley Martin: There was a couple downstairs, a couple of offices. Yeah, we’d, well we never had a reason to care or want to you know, it was like, this was our school and anybody else was just hanging out I guess. Never thought much about it! It was all we knew, all we knew. But my children went to the new high school, and they went to the existing town schools. 

Caralie: I had also heard that there were people from Granby that went to high school here, is that true?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, there were. There was, for a while, they didn’t have a high school in Granby. So a lot of Granby kids did come down here for a while. But then they had one and that didn’t happen anymore. Yeah, and we didn’t know them usually, but they seemed to blend in. I don’t remember anyone standing out. The only scandal I can even remember is there was one girl in my class, I’m not going to say her name, and she 

(MZ 9)

Shirley Martin: was very tall, large girl as far as height, and big boned girl, and she was built very mature. And at the time, Westover was a regular army air force base, it wasn’t for national guard or anything, it was an army base. The air force base, and they used to have dances and things out there, and she used to go to them, and everybody talked because she went out there and danced with the soldiers and that was like scandalous, scandalous because she went out there. And uh, they, her nickname was apples, the boys, the boys named her, apples cobbler, and they still to this, at the reunions, they’ll go up to her now and call her apples you know, and she’ll laugh. 

Caralie: And she doesn’t mind that?

Shirley Martin: Well, I guess she doesn’t mind that now, because she laughs with them! That’s the only scandal I can even think of, is that apples went to Westover and danced with the soldiers

. . . (cut out my random comments)

Caralie: When you walked to school, were you ever late to school, or did you ever try to skip?

Shirley Martin: No, a lot of the boys would skip every once in a while. And then there was a story that went around and I never knew how true it was. You think of these things, you know. We were, we were really so protected you know, and there really wasn’t a lot that went wrong. But, I remember, I don’t know if I was a junior or a senior, when there was talk that a bunch of guys drove to New York state, just over the border into New York state where supposedly there was a whore house, and the talk was that the boys were driving over there. Of course I never knew if it was true or not, and you didn’t dare ask anybody if it was true, and I think some of the guys would say that, based on the story just to pump themselves up as being a big shot or something! So I never knew if it was true or not, or if it was just one of those stories, but it’s the things you would talk about, it was the closest thing to gossiping. “Imagine that, you know” 

. . .  (cut out my random comments)

Shirley Martin: Different life, different times. 

Caralie: Did people ever drive to school and have their own cars, or was it basically only one car per family?

Shirley Martin: No, no, no. In fact, my father worked very close to where we lived, and he walked to work all the time. And uh, so we didn’t even have a car for a lot of years. Walked everywhere, or took the bus. And it wasn’t until, god I think I was married, that my father finally got a car, and he retired and everything. But, there was no need. I took a bus. I can even remember far back enough when the trolley ran over Main Street to about where the agon eye is now, just past the church, but that’s as far as it went. It was the trolley on tracks it was little, little though then. And they stopped that.

 . . . (cut out my random comments) 

Shirley Martin: That’s as far as it went though. It came over the bridge and it went over Main Street there, past the church, and in front of those stores and then it stopped, went back again. But I was real young at that. I barely remember it. I can remember taking the train in Holyoke in the flats. That was an active train station there. And my mother and I going to Springfield, to meet up with her sister and my cousin and shop in Springfield and have lunch in Springfield and then take the train back, and then take the bus from the train station home. So we did everything like that and didn’t think of anything of it, 

. . . (cut out my random comments)

Shirley Martin: And it was safe, you didn’t worry, you weren’t afraid, you know. Wouldn’t do any of those things now probably. It was a, it was as I say a different time, a different way of life. 

Caralie: Did you, did the girls at South Hadley High have a rivalry with the girls at Mount Holyoke?

Shirley Martin: Not really, you know, to us Mount Holyoke was like you know, the crown at the top of a hill. I remember my father wanted me to go there so badly and, at the time, if you maintained a certain average you could go tuition free if you were a town resident and my father wanted me to go so badly, and I didn’t want to go. And I suppose it was because I was so used to it being there. My idea of college was to go away somewhere, but I didn’t. I got involved in the restaurant and hotel industry right away, and went from there. I had my education the hard way, by learning it, hard knocks. Learn by doing. So I never did go to college, but it was like a, that was the epitome you know, that was the thing to strive for. And it was, I suppose to us, everybody that went there must be rich, 

(MZ 10)

Shirley Martin: You know, that was the attitude. And we really didn’t think too much about it. It was there. Just so used to it, it was there. Of course, as you get older you realize a lot differently about it and what a wonderful place it is, the good education and everything that takes place there. But when you were young it was there that’s all, and they were rich. That was all we knew. And they didn’t seem, the college girls didn’t seem to come down here in the falls very much. Or at least we weren’t aware of it, they were pretty much, stayed up in the center, did activities up there.

Caralie: Did you guys have school vacations the same way we do now?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, yeah. We had a spring vacation, a fall vacation, a winter vacation. We didn’t have too many of them that I remember. A little bit around Easter, that was the spring one. And there was a winter one, and there was a, that’s all. 

Caralie: Did you do anything fun during them? Or was it just kind of like work? Hangout?

Shirley Martin: That’s it. You know, again, I think because when you think that you were so used to your town and everybody in it, and there, and everybody didn’t have cars and you took busses everywhere, that you didn’t go venturing off that far, because most parents fathers, at least, were working even though you were on vacation. I don’t remember doing anything really special on any of those vacations, just hang out. Just hang out.

Caralie: Relax! When you were in High School where did you see yourself going? Did you, I know you said,

Shirley Martin: I thought I wanted to be a nurse. That was pretty much what I wanted, and I was gearing most of my classes toward that. And then, at the time, they had nursing school at Holyoke Hospital, and I went and toured that facility of where they stayed while they were training. And then right after that I went to see a friend in the hospital who had a ruptured appendix or something, and I walked in and she had tubes coming out of every place, and I looked at her and, uh, I felt so bad for her, I couldn’t stay even. And I thought I can’t do that, I can’t do that. But now my two cousins went on to become nurses, but I couldn’t do it, couldn’t do it. 

. . . (cut out my random comment)

Shirley Martin: So I went to work when I first got out of school in a jewelry store, and they put me through a gemology course. To, I figured I’d be a gemologist because I got interested in that, and I didn’t do anything with that, didn’t do anything, so I went back to what I know, restaurants and everything. And I went up to hotels and worked my up, up in hotels too in sales directorship, and that’s where I stayed, I stayed. 

Caralie: Sounds enjoyable. 

Shirley Martin: It was, it was interesting. I loved it, it was good. I became a workaholic. I worked too much, I know, but I look back on it now, I know I worked too much, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I had a lot of responsibility, and I liked it.

. . . (cut out random comments)

Shirley Martin: And we had fun, you know. In those days, well those days, you worked and you gave your all to where you worked. And you were friends with the people you worked with, and you did things that were for the good of who you worked for. And over years you could see that trend kind of changing.

. . . (cut out extra talk on work/jobs)

Caralie: Did the high school push you toward certain things, would they say, “oh you should go to college”?

Shirley Martin: Like I said, you could get counseling if you asked for counseling. You could get advice if you asked for advice. But it wasn’t like they asked you one on one to come and discuss what you’d like and what you’d be good for. We didn’t have any of that, that I can remember! 

. . .(cut out walk through intro)

(MZ 11)

Shirley Martin: Oh god, this is funny. Now see, I remember that as being where we had to go. Unless it was on the other side. See, I seem to think that this side was the town hall.

Caralie: Oh okay. 

Shirley Martin: That these two were the town hall, but we came in the other door.

Caralie: Would those be trophies from the teams that won, you think?

Shirley Martin: Oh my god, that’s right. I forgot about this! This way, yeah that’s what it is. God those are old. Yeah, that’s what they are.

Caralie: So did your baseball team win stuff too?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, there was a baseball team, football, basketball. Oh, these are real young kids, I don’t know what year it is. Huh!

. . . (cut out my random comments)

Shirley Martin: Now, this was French, this was Maybelle Pratt I think. She taught French and that’s all she taught. 

Caralie: Now were the doors big like this with the windows so you could see in?

Shirley Martin: I don’t think so. I can’t remember if you could see in or not. I don’t remember.

Caralie: I feel like that could be distracting. 

Shirley Martin: I would think so, I don’t remember. 

Caralie: Because that one has paper over it, it looks like. 

Shirley Martin: Yeah, They might have, you know, the doors look pretty old. 

Caralie: Yeah, they do.

Shirley Martin: Unless they had a shade, I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I don’t remember, but I’m pretty sure that was Maybelle Pratt. And maybe that was the superintendant, the office where you went. Yes, because we came in this way, and the office had to be that one, but I’m not even sure. Or this one! 

. . . (cut out my random comments) 

Shirley Martin: It seems to me that when you came in and had to go the office, it went on the left

. . .(cut out her comparisons with what Mr. Bennett thought) 

Shirley Martin: This was typing. All typewriters in there at one time

Caralie: Seems like a good sized room, so would there be a lot of people in the class?

Shirley Martin: Well, yeah, I bet you only about 25 max., yeah,  but that was typing. I don’t remember what this was

. . . (cut out random comments about map of what building used to be)

Shirley Martin: What’s that? Oh superintendent does it say? Oh, those are old! Those must be snapshots of parties that they partook of. 

. . . (cut stuff out about pictures)

Shirley Martin: We didn’t have any showers. I don’t remember what this was. I know this was, there was a, English class down here. And downstairs was the home economics, down there somewhere behind that door, god I don’t remember!

. . .(cut out not being able to do stairs)

Shirley Martin: I think there’s a room here too. Yeah, I think this was the English room, I think we went through these doors, yeah this is where the selectmen meet now, right? This was English, but downstairs there was home economics, so it has to be down those stairs.

Caralie: And how were the classrooms set up? Were there desks attached to chairs? 

Shirley Martin: Except for home economics they were, uh, oh that’s an interesting question. Yeah, individual

Caralie: Were they comfy? Creaky?

Shirley Martin: No, no.   

(MZ 12) 

Shirley Martin: I don’t remember, I can’t remember. The only thing I remember upstairs is biology and chemistry. Biology was downstairs somewhere too, I’m not quite sure where, but it was downstairs. And chemistry was upstairs on the other side. 

. . .(cut out talk about not remembering )

Shirley Martin: It’s been town hall for so long now, that every time we come to it now in town, it’s for town business, and over the years you just forget

. . . (cut out my comments)

Caralie: Were the hallways busy, because it’s not that wide?
Shirley Martin: This looks about what I remember. But I know we always used that door to come in, we didn’t use the one over there.

Caralie: Would there be bells during switching time?

Shirley Martin: Yep, yep. 

Caralie: If you were late to class when the bells go off, would you get in trouble? Detention?

Shirley Martin: They would send you to the office. Which, like I say, I’m pretty sure was right there.

Caralie: Did you ever have detention?
Shirley Martin: No! I was a good girl! I was a good girl!

. . .  (cut out other person talking)

Shirley Martin: And then like I said, we had some upstairs, just don’t remember all of it. 

. . .(cut out talk about other people—how far back interviews go)

. . .(cut out talk about people she dated, tattoo)

Shirley Martin: A lot of our guys went to the service, and couldn’t partake in the graduation ceremonies. . . but see we graduated, our services were at Mount Holyoke inside. . . Mary Woolley, that’s where we had our graduation. . . we went inside. . . same as they do pretty much now, you had your valedictorians and all that, your principal, and the speakers and that kind of stuff. And you got your diplomas. Several of our guys had already gone, and some went after that. 

. . .(cut out talk about class night)

Shirley Martin: You know you remember things that pertain more to you and things you had fun with. And you knew that you knew everybody and you were pals with everybody. . .

(MZ 13)

. . . (cut out opening yearbook, talking about random things)

Shirley Martin: We called our book the gateway.

. . . (cut out talk about splitting with town hall)

Caralie: Did people sign yearbooks?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, and the teachers signed it. . . the vice principal everybody went to. . . everybody knew everybody. . .

Caralie: Did they give people superlatives? A comment about you?

Shirley Martin: Yeah, we had that, the favorites. Here’s the most popular boy, I was the most popular girl!! Most bashful girls, class boys pal, class baby, perfect gentleman, perfect lady, most sincere, energetic. . .excitable, absent minded, unselfish, . . .

Caralie: what were the outfits like?

Shirley Martin:. . . And we had a class will, you went to each person and predicted what they were going to do. . . there was a committee that put this together. . . “comic strip of the antics of Dagwood, isn’t that enough?” . . . and then they had a class prophecy where they said where you were going to end up. . . 

(MZ 14)

. . .(cut out looking for her name…and looking through the yearbook)

Shirley Martin: To see the way we dressed. . . it was pretty much ankle socks and skirts, we didn’t wear slacks.. . didn’t wear heels. We didn’t have uniforms, but no girls could wear slacks. You didn’t wear them then like they do now. You just didn’t. and the boys, they dressed up for these pictures, but they dressed pretty casual, but they couldn’t wear shorts, they couldn’t wear some of the things we see out now. We pretty much dressed, look at the pleated skirts, and the loafers and the you know…pretty much that’s what we looked like. You know how they show those pictures of poodle skirts and saddle shoes…that’s how we dressed. . .

. . . (cut out talking about who gets yearbooks)

Shirley Martin: We wore long gowns, very proper…

(MZ 15)

Shirley Martin: You know, nobody would dream of wearing, exposing themselves. . . 

. . . (cut out talk about prom theme)

Shirley Martin: Usually you came with one guy, and usually you danced all the dances with that one guy. It isn’t like a mixer thing. I can only remember having one dance where everyone came without having partners. And then you would see more people that were popular dancing more than people who weren’t as popular. . . that was the only one where you didn’t have to wear gowns. We wore long gowns, the guys dressed in suits and ties. . . .

Caralie: Did they leave the lights on?

Shirley Martin: Oh yeah, there was no twilight or lamp light or anything like that. . . 

Shirley Martin: We didn’t have cars, half of us then, and your parents drove you. And the biggest thing with some of these dances was to walk up to. . . the ice cream fountain. . . for the first few proms for the first few years you walked, or your parents drove you. . . didn’t cost as much as it does now!

. . .(cut out talk of teams/uniforms)

Shirley Martin: We didn’t have the money for that kind of stuff now. . . (elaborate uniforms)

. . .(cut out talk of people watching games/ pictures of people who went into the service)

(MZ 16)

. . .(cut out pointing out “brains” aka nerds)

. . .(cut out talk of plays in the gym)

Shirley Martin: It was good times. . .

. . .(cut out talk of her children)

Remembering South Hadley High SchooL: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Charlina Ahn

4/20/07

C: How long have you lived in South Hadley?

MK: All my life. My great grandfather and my grandfather were builders in town and we have streets named after our family. Britian street, Marian street, Wealth avenue, and Grace avenue. They’re all in South Hadley Falls. 

C: What kind of work did your parents do?

MF: My father was a mechanic, owned his own business. My mother was just an ordinary housewife. She was left with three babies, my father walked out on her so she stayed home and took care of us.

C: Did your parents live in South Hadley? Were they born in South Hadley?

MK: Yes. My mother was born on Britain’s corner, which is her family name and my father was born in Canada, I don’t know exactly where but in Canada.

C: Was he a Canadian national?

MK: No, he just came to South Hadley early in his life and I guess lived in Springfield part of his life but his business was in South Hadley. The Falls garage in South Hadley. He was there the biggest part of his working life, that was where he worked.

C: What year did you graduate from High School?

MK: 1946.

C: Did you like High School?

MK: I did like High School, I was a fair student, I did like High School. Part of high school I suppose is the dating but I didn’t like boys, so I did very little dating in high school. In fact, for the queen of hearts dance, which was a beauty contest done secretly nobody knew who the queen was going to be until the night of the formal dance. And my brother had put a picture of me with jeans and a sweatshirt and I won. I had no date, so that was funny.

C: Did people vote for the winner?

MK: Yes, it was a school wide voting and you had pictures up here and drapes and… I was the only one with a snapshot down at the bottom of the board. [laughs] It was funny. So they had to fix me up with a young man in school who didn’t like girls. And we went to formal dance and had a great time. To this day, this young man is still a good friend of mine. He never married. He said you spoiled me! 

C: Did you enjoy your high school dances? Prom, homecoming…

MK: I never went to any except this one. I was the secretary of our class but I didn’t go to the dances. My mother couldn’t afford it for one thing. But when I was voted queen of hearts she had to go out and buy me a new gown. Couldn’t afford it but she did. 

C: That’s a good excuse to buy a new gown!

MK: Yeah. I had a twin brother in school at the same time, and a brother two years older than I was who was a scholar, who was a scholar. From the top down he was a smart young man. 

C: Did he go to college nearby?

MK: My brother did. He went to Harvard on the G.I bill of rights, and went further onto school through the government and became a labor addiche to the embassy in several countries in the world, and traveled with his wife and four kids.

C: That’s great

MK: Yeah, he made a good name for himself and enjoyed his work. He was all over the world. It’s a far cry from South Hadley for sure. 

C: Did you go to college after high school?

MK: I went to nursing school and became an R.N. And when I reached the age of 50, I went to school to become a nurse practitioner, which I worked at for six years. And then I retired, so I don’t work. I’m enjoying my retirement immensely I don’t know when I found time to work

[laughter]

C: I would like to be retired!

C: Have you attended any reunions?

MK: Oh yes, in fact I’ve been instrumental in starting reunions to get people together and we’ve had a fifth one and we’ve had a tenth one. But somehow rather nobody was in the mood to have a fifteenth one, whatever. So we’re just a little higher there in uh, somebody’s beginning to get interested in having a reunion. 

C: I see, I see. Have most of your friends continued to live in South Hadley after high school?

MK: A good number of them have. But you know, small town business, small town families, if someone goes to college they’re not gonna come back and settle in South Hadley. There’s not that much here to entice them. My two brothers stayed in the area, married and lived in Holyoke and started a mechanic business like my father…

C: When you would get to high school, did you take the bus?

MK: No, I walked almost a mile both ways and we didn’t have buses to transport little kids. We would walk to school in snow up to here [gesticulates]. But school wasn’t cancelled, we still had to go to school and we didn’t think of skipping school just because it snowed. You know, your mother would say put on your clothes, get dressed, you’re going to school. We didn’t argue with our parents way back then, it was expected and that’s what we did.

C: Did they plow the snow on the sidewalks at least?

MK: Um, they had a horse that would pull a wooden apparatus that would push the snow to both sides of the sidewalk. And we used to follow the horse if he was in our vicinity, so that would make it easier. And, even if they didn’t plow the sidewalks… if we weren’t behind the horse we were walking up on top of the snowbanks, because there wasn’t that much traffic around and there wasn’t that much danger. We didn’t have snowmobiles and all that sort of stuff to enjoy ourselves so we made it up ourselves. 

C: Did you participate in a lot of extra curricular activities in school? Like any clubs or organizations? You mentioned you were the secretary of your class…

MK: Yes, I was in several uh… I wasn’t pro-marital… I was on the basketball team, which was a first for South Hadley. Imagine having a basketball team in the town hall? We had no facilities for taking a shower after we had basketball practice. We’d just go back to class in our sweaty old clothes and thought nothing of it. 

C: I heard the bathrooms were in the basement of the building? Was that ever scary to use the bathrooms?

MK: There wasn’t the word scared in our vocabulary back then. Scared? We’d go out in the daytime and leave our houses open. We never locked out houses, we trusted the people. There was very little breaking in, breaking and entering, you know. People walking the streets that were strange…

C: Did your children also attend South Hadley high school?

MK: Yes they did. They all went to South Hadley for schools. And you get a good education if you put something into it. It’s there for you to receive if you want to receive it. If you want to be a lousy student and not study, you won’t come out with much. You know, it’s what you put into it. 

C: That’s true, that’s true. I heard that there was a problem between South Hadley high school and Mount Holyoke for the girls, where if you were a very good student maybe over the course of like, five years Mount Holyoke could take a certain number of girl students. I don’t know if that was still true when you were in high school?

MK: I’m not aware of that, I didn’t take part of that…The pro-marital students maybe…and then at one point I believe there was a program in town that, residents of the town, girls, if they were good students, they could come here free.

C: To Mount Holyoke?

MK: Yeah, that was way back. I don’t believe that’s in place anymore.

C: I doubt it. I know the South Hadley/Mount Holyoke relationship is not. I think there is something, but it’s very minimal and it’s not what it used to be.

MK: But they did have the “ABC” program here at Mount Holyoke, which would take kids from New York City, the poorer sections of New York and bring them here and give them an education. “A Better Chance” is what it was called. But that didn’t include the kids in South Hadley, it was for New York.

C: Oh, that’s unfortunate. 

MK: Yeah, well the people in South Hadley probably spoiled it themselves. If their kids didn’t take advantage of it or they didn’t want to come to South Hadley, it was too close to home so they’d go elsewhere.

C: Some of the other interviewees have commented about social differences within the school in terms of if you were from the Center then you were closer to Mount Holyoke and maybe got to go to certain events, concerts on campus. They were just kind of thought of as the people who were a little more privileged?

MK: Affluent? Yes, this is interesting. We had cousins up here, my mother’s sister Mary. She was a Mount Holyoke grad and she married a man who was in the lumber business, and they had four children. Their four kids were “center kids.”

C: “Center kids?”

MK: Rich kids, up there in the center. And um, they could do anything they wanted too. They could do no wrong. They were part of our high school and they had to go down to South Hadley to uh, go to school. And I guess the post office had something to do with the South Hadley Center and the South Hadley Falls. We used to be two separate entities but when the post office came into being, it was the South Hadley post office. So we’re South Hadley post office now, we’re not South Hadley Falls anymore unless it’s in the old folks mind that we’re still the Falls. We were kind of looked down on as second rate citizens…

C: Could you feel the social divide at school? Like, did the kids from South Hadley Center sit here in the cafeteria and they would do these activities but if you were from Granby or somewhere else, then…

MK: I believe there was some but it didn’t enter my life… my brothers and I were brought up with minimal amenities in any way shape or form. We didn’t have what all the other kids had and we didn’t miss it. We didn’t have it, we didn’t miss it. And we just went from one life to another, one day to another, and my older brother was president of his class for the whole term of high school and he wasn’t from the Center. But he was an outstanding young man and student, and just one of those things.

C: He must have been very popular too?

MK: Yes, he was a popular young man. I was popular. Not with the boys! And who cares? Yeah, it didn’t bother me. I just assumed beat ‘em as, like, have a date with them. And that’s, I could run faster than any young man in grammar school, I could beat ‘em all. Except in eighth grade there was one great big tall Polish boy who came into school, new, and he could beat me…

C: There’s always that one boy who can beat you!

MK: You know, I enjoyed school. I enjoyed other things in school, you know, took advantage of art class, I was in the Glee club, I was the major ed. of the high school band. Do you know why I was the major ed?

C: Why?

MK: Because I was the only one that fit into the costumes! 

C: Did you also focus on academics? 

MK: I don’t think you could say I focused on it, I wasn’t an outstanding student. I passed, I was good. I took courses so that if I chose to go into nursing, I would have the right subjects. Or if I wanted to go into business I would have the right subjects. So I just took a general course at school so I’d be ready for either. 

C: If you were on the college track, then you would take certain classes or if you were on the business class then you would take these…

MK: Yeah, college courses, business courses. But I mixed mine up so I could go either way when I graduated. Nobody told me about that, that that’s what I should do. It was just uh, you know, use your common sense. We didn’t have people to guide us along the way. Maybe there were some there but I never saw them. 

C: Did you feel that some of the male teachers treated you differently than the female teachers in school?

MK: No, I was never singled out…not that I know of anyway.

C: I’ve heard that it was very strict, that if you were in the hallways going from class to class that you weren’t allowed to talk to each other, you just kind of had to be silent and go to your next class. 

MK: Oh we had some dandy teachers… They were nice teachers, some of them were eccentric, but as far as being extremely strict…I wouldn’t have said that. If you behaved and you walked to class to class with your friends and you talked in a normal voice and didn’t raise […] 

C: When was the last time you were in the new building?

MK: Well, at town meeting about a month ago… I’m not a town member but I’m interested in things going on. But other than that, you go in there to pay your taxes or you go in there to get your excise tax paid and you go in for your birth certificate. But, it’s just in general, town hall that takes care of anything and everything you might want. But nothing that I would go frequently too. 

C: How do feel that it compares to the old building, what it used to be when you went there for high school compared to now?

MK: They’ve dressed it up considerably. It’s much nicer than it was when we were students. Um, but you can say one thing: it was well a built building if you’ve been in there you can see. It’s floors creak, that’s nice. The windows they’ve all been… but it was nice, you know, to do your studying and whatever. It was pleasant. 

[pause, changing tables]

MK: …I never, never even entertained the idea of going to college. My mother couldn’t afford it and I wasn’t that brilliant that I would be accepted, you know, tuition free and whatever. 

C: What do you feel are your most memorable events from high school? When you think back on high school, what are the first thoughts that come to you?

MK: That it was a pleasant time in my life. It wasn’t negative, it was just a nice time in my life. I never had anything exciting happening except winning the queen of hearts and Major Ed, and whatever. You know, my older brother was the smartest one of the three of us. Unfortunately, we were all in the same history class with Mr. Foley. And Mr. Foley and my brother were very close because my brother was on the debating team and he could debate pros or cons and win the same day. Mr. Foley thought he was pretty great. And this one particular class we were in, he’d call on me first to give and answer, and I might give half the answer, and he’d call on my twin, and say, “Don, what do you have to say? What do you have to offer?” And Don would give a few more little comments on the subjects, and then he’d say, okay Purcell, you get up and tell him. So my brother would get up and rattle off every little incident that was uh… we never should have been in the same class but we were.

C: Do you remember any teachers, classmates or staff in particular that stand out? I’ve actually heard the name Mr. Foley several times.

MK: Mr. Jeremiah Alouissis Foley, I took care of his five kids. But he still didn’t think I was that smart. Yes, Mr. Foley was very nice. And Mr. Landers, the coach for all the programs that were held, you know, the physical aspects of everything. And he did coach the girls basketball team such as it was. We were lousy, we never won a game but we had fun. [laughter] …maybe Alice Cullinen stood out because she liked me and she liked my twin brother and… she just taught home economics and that sort of stuff, nothing earth shattering.

C: Were teachers an integral part of school? Did you feel like they were people that you could talk to if you wanted to talk about something but didn’t necessarily want to take it to your parents or friends?

MK: I never put myself or thought of myself as being in a situation where I had to communicate with somebody for help. 

C: I see, or just you know, maybe if you wanted to just talk to a teacher about anything, did you feel like they were people you could approach?

MK: Thinking back I couldn’t tell you of any incident that happened like that. I was a well behaved young lady and nobody ever singled me out to give me hell and I was never in a situation where I thought I had to talk to somebody to straighten me out. 

C: Did you feel like there were social divides between the jocks or on varisty sports teams and the people who were maybe more academic minded?

MK: It didn’t make much of an impression on me if that was the case. I use to think maybe they were a little more aloof than the regular students, the ones that were so good in football and baseball…but.. [shrugs]

C: You didn’t feel that it was something that affected your everyday social interactions?

Mk: No, no. 

[conversation strays]

MK: So, I’ve had a good life really. And I don’t know if I would credit it all to being  a graduate of South Hadley high school or not but it was a nice part of my life. 

C: Do you still keep in touch with a lot of friends from high school?

MK: Getting together the class reunion the last two times was fun. We had people from California, Chicago, Florida… I mean to come back to a little hickey class reunion? [laughter] But we had a good time. And this next one will be rather sad because we’ve had a lot of people dying in our class, our age group, and its been uh, too many, too many. 

C: If you would like to share with me, what was your most embarrassing moment in high school? 

Mk: I’m not hiding anything but I can’t think of any real embarrassing moment in high school. Maybe when I went to the valentine dance and I had to jump through a paper hart. A paper hart, I had to jump through it, to be presented as your queen of hearts… that might have been embarrassing. But no, I couldn’t say that I’ve had any embarrassing moments that would stand out. 

C: Did you have a core group of girlfriends that you would hang out with a lot?

MK: Oh I had a lot of friends that I would do things with. In fact, some of them were the smartest kids in class…but they weren’t that popular.

C: What kinds of people tended to be the popular ones in high school? 

MK: I would say the ones that were athletically inclined. I wouldn’t say the ones in the Center were the most popular in our school. We also had people from Granby coming to high school when we were there.

C: Where did they fall in the whole social order of things at school?

MK: I don’t think they stuck out. I don’t think they were at the bottom of the barrel. They were just ordinary kids from farms up in Granby. Most of them, I don’t think there were too many of them that stayed with the sports programs because they had to go home and milk the cows and that sort of stuff.

C: What about Woodlawn?

MK: Woodlawn? They came to South Hadley high school. There were a few that stood out from Woodlawn but if I had to, I would probably say it was lower income people that lived in Woodlawn. 

C: Compared to South Hadley Center or Granby? 

MK: Compared to the Center. We were poor classes too down here in South Hadley Falls. Our families weren’t rich by any stretch of the imagination, like South Hadley Center stood out. They were rich kids. 

C: Did that have to do with the depression would you say?

MK: I don’t think I ever knew there was a depression. We didn’t have much in our lifetime, our father gave us very little. So um, that was the way we lived, you know. If we had to have everything we ate wrapped up in bread to fill us up, so be it, that’s the way it was. My mother made cream dried beef on toast. She would make a hot dog wrapped in bread. It was just um, that’s the way we ate. We didn’t have fresh fruit and all that stuff because my mother couldn’t afford it and my father didn’t make it available. 

C: The students from Granby and Woodlawn, they took the bus to South Hadley high school? Do you feel like that in itself created a kind of divide because they would be unable to participate in some athletic events?

MK: It could be, it could be. And then it could be the fact that when they got to be seniors they probably had their own car. 

C: I see, did many people have cars?

MK: Not too many. If it was anybody it was the rich kids that would, in senior year come out with the cars. 

C: The “Center” kids?

MK: Yup, the Center kids yup. 

C: Do your children’s children go to South Hadley?

MK: Oh yes, my oldest grandsons are 31 and 32 and they went to South Hadley high school…

C: It’s great that your children have stayed in the area. 

MK: It is, it’s very nice. I only have one daughter that lives in the Sierra Nevada mountains in California. The rest are within distance of calling and saying hi or stopping by, which makes it very nice. 

C: On a different note, how do you feel about the transition of your old high school becoming the new town hall? Were you sad that it wasn’t going to be a high school anymore or glad to see it become something totally different?

MK: No, by the time that happened I was out of high school and I had all my high school in the town hall…the transition from the brand new high school to the new town hall, I wasn’t involved with it. My kids were, but I wasn’t. I wasn’t one of these mothers that came to school every time one of these teachers snapped their fingers or something like that. 

C: Are there any other thoughts that you have about the high school, teachers, or just anything about your high school experience really?

MK: No, I think I touched on everything that uh, made an imprint on my mind. It wasn’t all that exciting but it was a nice time in my life. 

C: Do you feel that the school provided you with a solid education?

MK: It was there to get if I wanted to pick it up. I was a normal student, I didn’t excel at anything. I got B’s and C’s on my report card. An “A” was nice one in a while but I didn’t get a lot of them. I never flunked anything, so that’s something to be said I guess. 

C: Do you feel that the teachers were very qualified for the people who were just focusing on academics and that was a good environment for them?

MK: Yeah, but they never stood out as somebody that I’d… we were okay for a small school. I had nothing to compare it to, to a larger school. But it was a good environment and I’m glad I went. 

C: I’m glad you had a very good high school experience. Mine was very good too. 

MK: I think life is what you make of it, you know? And if you don’t want to study or if you don’t want to take what the school has to offer, then you know, how you end up is your own fault. But certainly the education was there for people to get if they wanted it. But if you don’t apply yourself, that’s your problem. 

C: Well I think we’ve touched on just about every subject that I was hoping to ask you about. 

M: Uh huh, I hope that this was what you were looking for.  

C: It was exactly what I was hoping for, it’s been great. 

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Charlina Ahn and Rachelle Coleman

April 3, 2007

(Rachelle’s Transcription)

Q: How long have you lived in South Hadley?

June: I’ve lived in South Hadley all my life.

Q: Had your family been here before you were born or did you move here?

J: My father was here, my mother was from New York State and married and came here. I was born in 1924 and I was in high school here from 1938-1941. Those were my high school years.

Q: What kind of work did your parents do?

J: My father was a farmer and my mother was a homemaker. My father raised vegetables and was a market gardener and sold them.

Q: You said you graduated…?

J: In ’41. I was 16.

Q: How big was your graduating class?

J: 108

Q: Since you said your father was a farmer, did you live outside of the city area of the town?

J: Yes, when I was…my parents separated when I was ten. Up until that time I lived on a farm. After my parents separated we moved down here to South Hadley falls and lived in apartments.

Q: So were you able to walk to school if you lived down in this area?

J: Yes.

Q: Did you enjoy your time at South Hadley High school?

J: Not really. We were poor, so we had no money. Um, even before I came I knew better than, I couldn’t sign up for a college course even though I was a good student. I had to take commercial because I was expected to go out and get a job and help my mother. In high school we had something called the…oh what was it called, it had initials…I’ll have to think about that. I forget what it was called. They would hire needy students and we got paid $6 a month. My job was to be in charge of the typing room after school. I supervised the kids who were typing and then at 4:00 when they were gone I would cover the machines up and go home. Another girl, her job was dusting. She would dust the counters and the other girl worked in the office. She assisted the dean of girls. That was like an hour a day and it was $6 a month and we were more than happy to get that. 

Q: So that was throughout high school that you had the job?

J: I don’t think I had it as a freshman. It might have been instituted in the later years but I must’ve had it a couple of years anyway. We were recommended by our teachers.

Q: Were there a group of girls who did this work?

J: I remember only three of us that were hired for that and those were the three jobs. I don’t remember any boys. Nope, that was it. I’m trying to think what it was called…it’ll come to me.

Q: The other two women were saying that the teachers were very strict about the hallways that there was no talking…

J: Oh yes, we had monitors in the hallway. For example in the hallway that we came down here, the students would be going this way and this way, and there would always be this big, sturdy guy. He would stand in the middle, you know, like this and see that you went this way and you went that way to just keep it moving.  

Charlina: Sounds like something out of a movie.

J: Yup. They were strict you know, you didn’t talk in class, you raised your hand. You could whisper I suppose, but you weren’t supposed to. 

Q: Was there detention after school?

J: Yes there was. Yup. We had to sign out to go to the lavatory and sign back in. What else…We had a lunchroom. I worked in the lunchroom. I worked for my lunch. For lunch you could have a sandwich, which was a nickel, and a bottle of milk or you could have a hotdog, which was a dime. If you had the hotdog you could not have the milk. So, that was our pay. 

Q: You worked giving lunch to other students?

J: Well yes, or making it too, making the sandwiches during home-ec class and getting trays ready for the teachers. We would have a main dish everyday that was 25 cents for like, cream dried peas on mashed potatoes, a slice of bread and butter. 

Q: So there was a system of having students participate in the production of food or cleaning up, like a workstudy almost?

J: Well, it was voluntary. We did not get paid for that other than the sandwich we were allowed to have. At that time we had subsidies from the federal government. We had oatmeal, which we made into cookies, and canned peaches, which were kind of sour. Everyday we would open up these commercial sized cans of peaches and put them in dishes and made cookies and put them out so that anybody could take those. Because we were poor, this was depression. Most of us were very poor and some kids didn’t have a lunch. So this way they could at least have peaches and oatmeal cookies for nothing.

Q: Was that for all four years of high school?

J: That I can’t remember. It was for at least the last two years, ’40 and ’41, but it might have been even earlier. Because before ’41, before the war, it was true depression and probably a greater need then. So I think that maybe the government subsidies came around that time. 

Q: Other than your work in the typeroom, did you participate in any extracurricular activities, any clubs?

J: We had a school newspaper called the spotlight. I was a typist for that. We also had a signing group we had to audition for called sixteen girls. I was in that. We had no phys-ed. The only thing we did have was a basketball, we had a girl’s basketball team but we had no showers or lockers, therefore, no phys-ed. The bathrooms were in the basement, very primitive with steam pipes going through. I could take you down to see what’s down there. And if we wanted to go to the town hall there was a cutoff. We could walk through the boiler room on planks and get through to the other side, to the town hall. 

Well, this room was room three when I was in high school and one of my English classes was here. The teacher was Ms. Salas. I have mixed memories you see because in 1955 this became an intermediate school and I was the school secretary. I was here from ’55 to ’61 when they built a new intermediate school. So I have memories from that too and it was a little different from when I was in high school in the ‘40s. 

Q: That was in the same building?

J: Same building, yes. It was 7^th and 8^th grade. 

Q: Is that when they built the new high school?

J: No that came later, or was it? Well the high school had to have been built. Yea, the high school was built first because when they left here that’s when it became an intermediate school until ’61. Then they built the new intermediate school and that’s when this became town offices.

Q: Did you have any children that attended the new high school?

J: No, I have no children.

Q: Do you have siblings?

J: Yes, two. They both came here.

Q: Are they close in age that they came here at the same time as you?

J: Um, my youngest sister no. We were six years apart. When she was in high school I was married. My other sister was a year and a half…so she was a couple of years behind me. I don’t even remember her being in school when I was. I was not happy in high school because for one thing I was very poor, I didn’t have the clothes or the prom gowns, anything like that. I shouldn’t be telling all this stuff because I’m being so depressing, but I remember I was the last one to get my class ring and they were like $6. 

Q: So you did feel like there was stratification within the high school?

J: Oh yes. It was South Hadley center versus South Hadley falls. If you came from the center, where the college is, you were considered a class above. It was more expensive to live up there than down here. Yes there was and there was for years that feeling. But I was happy to get out of high school because I wanted to get out and work and make money to help my mother.  

Q: What about people from Granby or Woodlong?

J: Woodlong is just a section of South Hadley and they came here. So did Granby. That was a special arrangement that the town had with Granby. They were bussed down and bussed back again for years until they had their own school.

Q: Where they isolated at all?

J: No, I don’t think so. They were accepted into the group. They were not isolated because they were from another town.

Q: Did you feel a change in dynamic when you came into this school from your previous school?

J: The only thing that was hard was coming into a building that seemed enormous to me after coming from one room all day long…We came a day early for orientation and the teachers were in the hall and we would have our schedule and I can remember stopping a teacher and asking, “Where’s room five?” And the teacher would point right there. I was terrified you know, terrified even to sign out to go to the bathroom. I was very shy. I can remember taking a C for English because I would not get up on the stage for public speaking. One of the things we had to do was speak in front of the class. We were taken into the auditorium, get up on the stage, and speak. I wouldn’t do it so I had to take a C which was not good for me.

Q: Did you have a favorite or least favorite class or teacher?

J: No one that I didn’t like. Some of the teachers were very good to me, the commercial teachers. One of them got me my first job.

Q: What was your first job?

J: I worked in a paper mill. I was a receptionist and a telephone operator in the general office. I started at $16 a week. I took home $15.84 and gave $10 to my mother. The rest was for me, which was for everything, spending money, clothes. I walked to work six miles a day.

Q: Did you also walk to high school?

J: Yes I walked because I lived just down the street. I lived on South Main St during high school and then when we moved to another street we still walked. 

Q: Even though you did not enjoy high school very much, did you attend any of the reunions?

J: Every one. Every one except the first one, the fifth year (reunion), because I was married and didn’t care. But I’ve been on the committee of every other one.

Q: So you helped plan them?

J: Yes I helped plan. We had our 65^th last year and I was the chairman. And we still meet, girls in my class, about 15-20 of us meet every other month or so. You know where Dockside is, at the marina? Up there. We meet up there and have lunch. There we are in our eighties and we get together and it’s nice. 

(Charlina’s Transcription)

Q: So you have kept in touch with many of your friends?

J: Yes, mmm hmm, even now I still um, email um you know like my best friend from HS yup. 

Q: Do you remember any adventures you had together you and your best friend in HS? Anything?

J: Um no I don’t remember adventures. She was our class artist and she was very pretty, both of my best friends were beautiful. I was not and one of them was a beautiful blonde with blue eyes and dimples and um, she had everything you know? And um, she’s dead. And this other girl was also very pretty and very talented. So it was tough to have good-looking girlfriends like that. [laughter] But even they, as attractive as they were, we were so poor that no one got invited really to a prom, you took yourself maybe you know? The boys didn’t have money to buy you flowers or… nobody had cars I think two teachers had cars and one student. She was very popular [laughter] Yup, she was very popular because she had a car. And all the other teachers took the bus. They would take the bus from Holyoke, all of them, and then take the bus home again. And two of them had cars, that was it. 

Q: Do a lot of your friends, did you say that they live in SH still, the ones that you meet up with?

J: No, they live within the area. SH, Granby, Amherst. Yeah, it’s surprising how many of us are still. You know, people can’t believe that I was born in this town and never really left the farm, that I’m still here because most of them they get out of college and boom they’re gone. They’re gone to you know, one of my sisters one went to Boston one went to NY but that was when they were of age, but not when I was. Yeah, I was born too early. 

C&R: [laughter]

Q: When is the last time you were in this building?

J: Um, last year I guess. I came to get something at the tax collector’s office, yeah.

Q: And it’s changed a lot since HS times, has the building changed?

J: Um, yes. Quite a bit, yeah. Especially you know like made into offices. Yeah. And I’m trying to think in what they changed in 1955 when they opened it up as an intermediate school. I know the first day of school we had piles of dirt and everything on the floor, it was not finished and we had students here. Yeah, I enjoyed that, I loved that. That was a good job. 

Q: That was a good age group to be around?

J: The kids, yeah, well yes I liked them. That’s what I taught as a matter of fact was junior high after that stint as a secretary, yeah.

Q: So you were a teacher?

J: I was a teacher yes. I taught HS in Chicopee for a couple of years and then I came and I taught in SH for like 23 years.

Q: Oh wow, at the SH HS?

J: Yeah, well actually I taught at the middle school then, yeah. 

{Walk Through}

J: We used to be able to walk at recess we’d go outside, you know, we could walk around these stairs. You know, I’d meet a girlfriend from maybe another class and we’d walk around, talk about the boys. [laughter]

R: They’re always a hot topic! [laughter]

J: The topic! [more laughter] I can’t remember those, oh wait a minute yes this went down to the home ec. Room. The home ec. Room was down there I wonder what’s there now. Let’s go down and see. (Room is locked). Oh we aren’t gonna see it. 

R: I guess it’s locked up. Maybe it’s a storage room or something now.

J: It’s a big room but I don’t know, yeah. 

Q: Is there something else over here?

J: I don’t know we’ll have to go there and see. Oh see that could have been the boys room in that room. 

Q: This is where the bathrooms were, down in the basement?

J: Yes, yeah. 

Q: Was it scary coming down here by yourself?

J: No, nope. 

J: Oh this is so different. I don’t remember what that could have been. We had a science room down here, maybe that was it. 

Q: Was the coatroom down here as well somewhere? We were told by the other women that…

J: Um, I can’t remember. The lavatory, like, the girls room would have been something like this (attempts to open door, which is locked). There’s no window there but that’s maybe where the main electric… everything is different down here… custodials…where is the boiler room? We’re not in the town hall so the boiler room had to have been back there that we cut through. See, this is… 

R: Maybe they closed it off after they…

J: Yeah, I don’t know what this is down here. Oh, that’s bad.. and the elevator…

Q: We can go back upstairs and check out the first floor I guess, the main floor?

J: Well this would be town hall, yup.

Q: But at one time the whole thing was the High School, right?

J: Nope, no, never. 

Q: So this part was added on?

J: No, this was here but we…

Q: You just didn’t use it?

J: We could only use it, we could go into the um, into the um…

Q: The auditorium?

J: The auditorium there, yup. (Inside auditorium) This was um, at the time the town hall, this was the tax collector’s office and this was the town clerk’s office. And that was it. That was it for the town hall, those two rooms. And this was the auditorium and we could enter through there, it’s been blocked off. 

R: Oh, okay.

J: Yup. We did not eat here. That was down uh, we ate downstairs in that home ec. Room. We came in here for music. Or rallies, something like that. 

Q: We were told that this is where they had proms and dances?

J: This, yup, this was, yup. The Freshmen hop you know. I can remember that. 

Q: Do you remember them getting it all decorated or was it not so much that, just…

J: It wasn’t so much and I don’t even remember what music we danced too. It must have been a record player. But we just had the chairs all around and we would sit there and wait. 

Q: For the guys?

J: Yup, yeah. I can remember dancing with a boy that I was in seventh grade with and he had taught me to dance in the seventh grade. And my mother was upstairs watching with her friends, so embarrassing.

R&C: Laughter. Oh, no! 

Q: We heard all the mothers would be up watching their daughters. 

J: Yes, yeah. So we would just have to sit and wait. I was so stupid. They’d play three songs at once, you know three. And so after the first number, instead of waiting for the second song, I would just walk away from him and go and sit down again. And my mother would say, “what did you do that for? There’s three sections to the dance!” I didn’t know. Stupid!

Q: And we were told that sometimes you would have a dance card that you would fill out?

J: Oh that was for the proms, which I didn’t get to go to, you know. I’ve seen them but we didn’t have dance cards for…

Q: It was less formal for the regular parties?

J: Oh yeah it was you know, sock hop, you know. I think there were maybe two proms a year. Yeah, yeah. Winter and spring. That was it for the town hall.

Q: So this part was still the town hall?

J: This was, yes, this was the town hall but we came in through a door there. It was either come through that to go in here or to go down cellar and get through the boiler room somehow.

Q: This part was all blocked?

J: Yeap. This…let me think…yeah, we didn’t use that (gesticulates to door in hallway). Um, trying to think… alright, we came in there. This was the principal’s office, I think. This was a classroom and at one time there was a library here. A small room they called the library. And this was the dean of girls in high school and when it became the intermediate, um, it became the teacher’s room and there was like one lavatory in there for men and women with a glass door up above. [oh wow] You could hear anybody tinkling in the hall. You’re trying to keep busy and talk while a man went in there you know? [sounds like college!]

Q: And were these classrooms down this area?

J: Um, I’m trying to think, um. There was, yeah, there were two rooms. There were two room there. There was one room there, one room here. There was no um, this lavatory that’s here now was not there. There were rooms upstairs, there was a study hall upstairs and the typing room was upstairs, the science lab was upstairs, yup. This was not here. [referring to the bathroom in the hallway] This was a main corridor. I’m trying to think, there must have been a classroom here but this was not here. So this had to have been, that would have been a library opening up onto the other room. Everything has really changed.  [looking at a picture of the class of ’39 on the wall]… Well, if my eyesight were better I would know some of them because they would have been in school… It’s up too high and I would know practically all of these people. Yeah, everybody wore socks then. 

Q: Was it dress code to wear skirts or was that just assumed that all the women and girls would wear skirts to school? 

J: Oh yeah, there were no jeans in those… if you wore jeans you were poor. It would mean that you didn’t have any money to wear regular pants, and girls didn’t wear them, no. I went to a catholic college and um we couldn’t wear pants except in the winter time if you were, um, going to go out and play in the snow. You couldn’t go in the library with slacks on. So strict. [agreement]

R: Well I guess that we’ve kind of made a circle now, came back. 

J: Is that enough info for you?

R: Sure, do you have any final thoughts or is that pretty much what you remember from your experience?

J: I don’t think so, I think so. 

C&R: Well we really appreciate your participating.

J: Well you’re certainly welcome. 

Remembering South Hadley High SchooL: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Cheyenne Gleason

4/13/2007

Track 1 

Cheyenne: First I would like to ask some background questions like how long your family has been living in South Hadley? 

Joyce: Since, (pause) about 1905, I think it was.

Cheyenne: Does your family still live around here, like your parents, um sorry. 

Joyce: No, some of them do, the ones who are left yes, some of them still do. Many more of them lived in town. I had an uncle who graduated from this High School in 1911 when it was brand new. 

Cheyenne: Oh wow 

Joyce: And another, two uncles, two of my mother’s brothers graduated from South Hadley High School when it was practically brand new.

Cheyenne: So you had a lot of family in the area?

Joyce: Yes, my mother was one of ten, and my father was one of fourteen and he lived, he was actually born in South Handley, she wasn’t, but her family came to South Hadley I think about 1905. 

Cheyenne: So you have been living here all your life?

Joyce: Well, when my parents were first married we lived in Springfield, and then they lived in Holyoke for a wile, but we came here in 1936, came back to my mother’s house. Her mother had died so she said she would take care of the house for her father and two or three of her brothers who were still living at home. So we moved here to South Hadley Falls in time for that 1936 flood. We lived on School Street and that street was inundated so we had to go back to Holyoke and then when the house was cleaned up came back and we lived there ever since. When my husband and I were married in 54 we lived in Indian Orchard for 8 years, that’s a part of Springfield then we moved, came back to South Hadley in 1962, been here ever since. 

2:35

Cheyenne: Wow, so did you have any children who went to schools here?

Joyce: Our son was born in 69 and he graduated from South Hadley High School.

Cheyenne: Oh, but he graduated from the newer high school

Joyce: Yea, oh yes.

2:50

Cheyenne: So did you see any differences in the school? 

Joyce: Yea

Cheyenne: What was that like?

Joyce: Well aside from the different physical plans, which were very different, and the fact that there were many more activities for students at the new high school than there were at this, in this building. Although we never seemed to lack for things to do, but as you probably know there was no gym for girls here. 

Cheyenne: Yes I heard that

Joyce: No shower rooms. And I was looking at my yearbook before I came and there were no sports for girls. You know not even softball team. Cheerleading, that was about it.

Cheyenne: Oh really Cheerleading. So do you know why they…

Joyce: Well they didn’t have the facilities and they just had one Physical education teacher and he taught the boys and coached their teams.

4:02

Cheyenne: I guess maybe my next question would be what kind of work did you parents do when you were in high school or young? 

Joyce: My father was an insurance agent for prudential insurance company. He sold life insurance, different kinds of insurance. My mother never did uh work outside her home. I mean she took care of the house that we lived in. Eventually her brothers did move away and my grandfather died and so in 57 they moved to a smaller house and continued to live here until they died. And as I said in 62 my husband and I came back to South Hadley.

Cheyenne: What made you decide to come back? 

End of track 1

Track 2

Joyce: My husband had become a teacher in the city of Springfield so we were looking for a house, a two family house, that we could buy and since he would have his summers off her could, you know, manage to take care of the house, the inside to do the repairs and that sort of thing. We did look at a few houses in Springfield but then we learned of a few houses in South Hadley that were for sale and so we said well why don’t we go back to South Hadley (Laughs) And our house is within walking distances of Mount Holyoke. I graduated from Mount Holyoke in 53 and worked at Mount Holyoke from 64 to 69 and after that did some volunteer work in some of the offices there.

Cheyenne: Where did you work when you were working there? 

Joyce: My first job there was for the president’s secretary. It was a part time job and my office was on the top floor of Mary Lyon Hall, next to the clock (laughs). She thought it was great having an assistant and she decided she would really like to have one full time but I didn’t want to work full time so I went to work for the ABC program. I don’t know if you know what that is. 

Cheyenne: No 

Joyce: It was called a better chance and that was the program that, I think that there is still one in Amherst, where disadvantages students, high school students, can come to the A Better Chance program to better prepare themselves for a spot in the private school in order to better prepare themselves for college. So I worked for that program until 63 and then I helped out in the office of the secretary of the college. By this time I knew I was pregnant and I wasn’t going to be working too much longer so I worked until the March of 69.

2:50

Cheyenne: Did a lot of students from here go to Mount Holyoke? 

Joyce: Hum, well I think there were eight from our high school class, (pause) there were 92 in our graduating class from South Hadley High School. I think there were about eight. At that time town girls could go to Mount Holyoke tuition free if they lived at home.  

Cheyenne: That’s nice

Joyce: So, you know, I had to pay for my books and my gym suit and stuff like that (laughs) but aside from that it was a real bargain.

Cheyenne: Did you notice a lot of girls in your high school that had maybe aspiration to go to college because they had a woman’s college so close? 

Joyce: That may have influenced some. The curriculum of the high school then included a college prep course, a business course and something they called a general course. If you knew that you wanted to go into business, you know secretarial work or whatever, then you took the business course. If you were going to go to college then you would take the college course. I am not sure what the general course included but (laughs). We were limited as far as the courses that they had here, as I told you there was no gym for girls. The laboratory facilities I think were kind of…

Track 2 Ends

Track 3

Joyce: …primitive (laughs) but I mean we did have chemistry, biology and physics and all those. There was little cross over, we were allowed to take typing, those of us in the college course, but we weren’t allowed to take any of the home ec. courses or the shop courses. As I understand it, in junior high when my son was in high school he had cooking and shop and all of those things. The home ec room here was down in the basement and that was where we had the lunch room as well. We were talking about this, a couple of other people and I, and the sister of one of the persons I was talking with said oh yes they served food in the cafeteria and the three of us said we don’t remember them serving food we brought our sandwiches. Maybe we could buy milk, but I don’t remember them serving any food. I don’t think they had the kitchen equipment to do it. 

1:21

Cheyenne: Huh, that’s funny. 

Joyce: And someone else I was talking to said, his family lived a couple of streets over, he said I went home to lunch.  (Laughs) And some of the kids went to, there were a couple of little stores at the main intersection, a couple of little lunch rooms and some of kids went there for lunch. 

1:49

Cheyenne: I know that there were students that came from different feeder schools, and so I was just interested in what that was like having students…because I guess since you lived in South Hadley and you went to middle school…

Joyce: No, no middle schools. We had, I think, four elementary schools that served the different parts of town through eighth grade, except for one. This one particular school only went though the 6^th grade so the 7^th and 8^th graders in that school came to another school in the town, and then the three schools converged on the high school. 

Cheyenne: Ok, so how was that having the students come in when you had already known… 

Joyce: Plus Granby, because my friend Claudette came from Granby to High School here. 2:50 Well. We did know some of the other students through church activities. Sometimes the youth groups would combine so they weren’t complete strangers (laughs).

Cheyenne: Right, ok.

Joyce: But, I think we mixed well. And I don’t think the Granby, at least Claudette never said that she felt different having come from Granby, so I think we mixed pretty well. 

Cheyenne: So there weren’t any distinctions between those are the Granby students… and the falls and center.

3:52

Joyce: Well you know there always, and probably still is, a little rivalry between sections of the town. There are two water districts in town and fire districts. District one which is down here and district two which is up near the center. There are some people who would really like to make it all one, one town, and that would be beneficial in some ways, probably financially, but there are a lot of people who really want to retain the two districts. I’m not sure how I’d vote if it came to that. So there was some rivalry, but I think a lot of that disappeared once we came together at the high schools. I mean when you’re on the same activities as other people those sorts of things kind of disappear. There were a lot of things to do… 

End of Track 3

Track 4

Joyce: …well I mean I said we didn’t have gym for girls and no team sports for girls, but there were a lot of clubs. The usual, dramatic, glee club, girl’s vocal group, chess club, debate team, a news paper, the year book. At one point they included an activities period during the day which meant that you could go and participate in an activity. This was helpful especially for the people who took the bus because the buses left when school was out and if you wanted to stay for an activity you had to find your own way home. At that time, I was in high school from, I started in 46 and graduated in 49, well it was just after WWII and things were getting back to normal but not that many kids had use of a car. Maybe seniors but it wasn’t, we came by the high school today and the parking lot is huge, (laughs) and those aren’t all faculty cars, there are student cars too. 

Cheyenne: Um-hum 

Joyce: So there were a lot of activities for us. We also had something called released time for religious education. That was I think once a week an hour or so in an afternoon and the group that I belonged to went over to the police station, not the one that is there now but a much older building that has since been taken down, or fell down I’m not sure which, but we went upstairs to the room over the police station for our religious education class. 

Cheyenne: Interesting. Were you in any of the other clubs or activities that they had. 

Joyce: Well I worked for the newspaper, and I was in the glee club, and the girl’s singing group. I was in the dramatic club. 

Cheyenne: That’s a lot. 

2:32

Joyce: And well there were some other things too. One of the, as I read through this (her senior yearbook), and the activities that the students were in, we all liked to square dance. That was, (laughs), even the fellows were square dancers. That was something, putting on a square dance was something we did to raise money for our class, for some of our class activities. We did, (laughs), that were in the back of my mind, I remember that we square danced. There was a man who worked at Mount Holyoke College, his name was Corky Caukins, and some of his decedents still work at Mount Holyoke, and he taught us all to square dance. He had a little band and he was the one whenever we wanted to raise money to have a square dance we always asked him to come and play for us, which he did (laughs). 

 3:46

Cheyenne: I was wondering back to, you were talking about the different tracks that people were on or courses that people took was there any differences between males and females and what tracks you were on? 

Joyce: You know I don’t think so, I don’t think they had enough staff to do that. 

Cheyenne: Was there any particular track where it was more likely that boys would go into that track and girls would go into a different one. 

Joyce: I don’t think so. It doesn’t seem to me now. I know what you mean but I don’t think so.  

4:32

Cheyenne: Just curious. Ok, so have you gone to any reunions?

Joyce: Oh, yes, (laughs). 

Cheyenne: Yea, what have those been like?

Joyce: Our class I think we had a 2 year reunion, a five year reunion and then every five years we’ve had a reunion through fifty, we did not have one a fifty-five.

End Track 4 

Track 5 

Joyce: but at our fifth reunion even some of our teachers were able to come and that was neat. The fifth reunion we planned was like a whole weekend. Those who lived around here and those who came from distances, we went to a potluck picnic on Friday night and then there were different activities for Saturday morning, some people wanted to see what UMASS had become because when we were in school UMASS was a sleepy little agricultural college. But, you know, it has since grown tremendously, so some people went on tours of that, of Amherst and so on. I think even some people went to Yankee candle to see that. In the afternoon another group of us went up to Montague. Our science teacher had been living on a farm in Montague with his wife and family for quite a few years. He was not well enough to come to the reunion dinner that Saturday evening so about a dozen of us went up to visit him, and look at the farm, and reminisce. We had a dinner at the Delany house Saturday night and then Sunday morning we met for breakfast down at St. Patrick’s church which is near here. The men’s group there, ever I think once a month still pus on a breakfast on Sunday morning and said why don’t we meet down there so that’s what we did, those of us who were still around.

Cheyenne: That’s nice 

2:28

Joyce: It’s interesting how some people made a big effort to get to our reunions, I mean coming from the state of Washington and California, and yet there were some people around here who didn’t come to reunions and I felt kind of sad about that (laughs). Although more of them came to the fiftieth than had come before, some had not come to any. At I think it was our 45^th reunion, or maybe it was the 40^th but anyway, quite a few of the teachers were there and we asked them would they like to say a few words if they didn’t want to it was fine, but I remember one of the men got up and said that the big discussion, he said that he wouldn’t want to be a teacher today, that the big discussion question in our faculty meetings way back then was how can we get the kids from chewing gum in class. (laughs) I don’t know if they were successful or not. 3:53 In our junior year a young woman came to teach English and I was in that class that she taught and some of the fellows in the class could be cutups and she sent this one boy to the principle’s office because she’d had it with him, not really knowing that he was the son of the superintendent of schools (laughs). We said would that have made a difference and she said well no not really. (Laughs) But we thought, we were under the impression that we had given her a rather hard time, her first year teaching at South Hadley High but she said that she had made a deal with herself that if she survived the year she would continue to teacher and she did survive the year.  

End of Track 5

Track Six

Joyce: And she was in her nineties when she died. 

Cheyenne: Wow, that’s nice. So you were saying that a lot of people are in this area. Did it seem like most of the class stayed around here after graduation or after maybe when they went to school came back? 

Joyce: I think, this is just a rough estimate, I never counted. 

Cheyenne: Yeah that’s fine 

Joyce: I think half left, at least half of them left, and not all of them, I mean I never felt as if I left the area, I mean we went to live in Springfield but you know that was not that far away. There were a lot who left and did not come back. I mean some of them did come for reunions eventually but …

Cheyenne: It sounds like you still have some friends who are in the area. 

Joyce: Yeah and still correspond with some friends who live in California, and once in a while they come back this way. Ohio, Oklahoma… (Laughs). 

End of track 6

No track 7

Track 8

Joyce: That room there 

Cheyenne: That room was your homeroom? 

Joyce: Freshman year. 

Cheyenne: Was homeroom just your first period class? 

Joyce: No, no this was where attendance was taken and then we went on to whatever our classes were, and the homerooms were just alphabetically, there was no rhyme or reason as to who was in one room or another. 2:30 Can we go down here? I think this is about where we went down to the home ec room. You know what I remember about the stairs, of course the stairs were all wooden, they were all concave, they were so worn. Of course the building has been rehabbed and some of these things have been repaired.  

Skip to 1:18

Joyce: I think the ladies room was down here. There weren’t any ladies rooms upstairs, except maybe for the teachers. 

Cheyenne: That’s interesting, what happened when you had to use the bathroom

Joyce: If you were desperate you had to come down here. 

Cheyenne: Wow, that’s interesting.

Joyce This is like the catacombs, huh?

Cheyenne: Yeah.(Pause) Did you have any teachers that stand out in your mind that you remember?

Joyce: Oh yes, yes a lot of them, most of them. 

Cheyenne: Any favorites or least favorites?

Joyce: Well, we were all frightened of Mr. Folly, because he was very stern, strict, you know and he taught world history, U.S. history, coached the debating teams. He was really a very nice man (laughs) but you know when you are a lowly freshman and your coming he could be a little intimidating. The man who…what’s in here? This is all changed around. Oh chamber of commerce, that’s Susan’s office. 

Cheyenne: Do you come to this building often?

Joyce: Oh just to pay taxes. Well and sometimes for meetings town meetings and stuff like that.

Cheyenne: Ok, but you haven’t actually looked around the whole building  

Joyce: No I haven’t been down here. (Laughs)

Skip

3:32

Joyce: I’m going to say that the office was there, the principle’s office. I think our dean of girls had her office about here and I think the school library was in this area.

Cheyenne: So there was a dean of girls? 

Joyce: Yeah she was the French teacher. Shall we go upstairs?

Cheyenne: Sure, Yeah show me. 

Joyce: And there was a man, a Mr. Conner who taught economics, he was the dean of boys. I had him for economics my senior year and that was a big change, because Mount Holyoke reduced the number of sciences that someone had to take to get into Mount Holyoke I didn’t have to take physics, (laughs) I could take economics. 

Cheyenne: That’s lucky. 

Joyce: I’d had chemistry, you know, and 4^th year algebra, but I wasn’t looking forward to taking physics. 

Track 9

Cheyenne: So what do you remember was up here?

Joyce: We had a very large study hall but it was also all senior homeroom. We were all in the same room. Now this, oh this goes to the elevator but where is the balcony? There’s a balcony that’s over the auditorium. 

Cheyenne: Oh really? 

Joyce: Well there was. Oh yeah here it is. 

Cheyenne: Oh yes here it is let’s go in. Wow this is nice, so this is where you would go…

Joyce: We had assemblies in here, and the boys played basketball in here (laughs).

Cheyenne: Basketball!?

Joyce: Yea, and any plays that we put on were here or concerts. 

Cheyenne: Did you have any school dances? 

Joyce: Yea, we had a Junior Prom and a Senior Prom. I think that study hall must have been along here but they chopped it up into different offices. 

Cheyenne: Did everyone have a study hall period? 

Joyce: Probably, I don’t remember ever studying in study hall because I was in activities so I had…I think one of my English classes was in one of these rooms, but they have all kind of been moved around. 

Cheyenne: So I was curious about maybe like in the school were there different groups of friends, kind of clicks, you know what I mean? 

Joyce: You know, I supposed, I had lunch with a group of about a dozen girls, not all in my class. Some of them were girls I knew from church and yet …(laughs) Oh Hi, this is my inquisitor Cheyenne, this is my husband Red Roberts, and this is a good friend. 

3:37

Joyce: Anyway where were we?

Cheyenne: Talking about your group of friends. 

Joyce: I don’t know, maybe there were clicks, I wasn’t aware of them. I had a big group of friends, the ones from church and some of my good friends, or became good friends were people from other parts of town, or Granby. 

Cheyenne: That’s nice that you were able to become friends with them. Were you able to see those friends outside of school? Or not really?

Joyce: Yeah, at the dances, the square that we had yes we would see them, see each other there.  

End of Track 9

Track 10 skip to 0:27

Cheyenne: I guess I kind of asked you this before but if you had any embarrassing memories or things like that?

Joyce: I think they have probably been erased (laughs)

Cheyenne: Oh that’s good 

Joyce: Maybe someone might have some of me but I don’t remember. 

Cheyenne: How about memories of other people doing embarrassing things, or just funny memories or even bad memories? 

1:09

Joyce: With two friends, one Claudette and then Helen from the center, the three of us did the write-ups for each of our classmates you know, we did all these little write ups (shows me her yearbook) and so I guess maybe that’s part of an answer to your question, that we pretty much knew everyone in the class, it was a small class, 92, that graduated. So we kind of had to know, the only three that we didn’t write were the write-ups for ourselves. (laughs) The mother of, Helen’s mother did the write-ups for the three of us.   

Cheyenne: What kind of things did you write, can I see? 

Joyce: Well, of course there was a list of the activities that everybody participated in, you 

know all of the things that they were in the four years that they were here, and then we kind of wrote something about oh their personality, if it was, you know, (laughs), and things they liked to do and that sort of thing.

Cheyenne: Are these just the seniors in the class? 

Joyce: Just our class, yes, just the 92 of us. 

Cheyenne: Everyone is so nicely dressed up. 

Joyce: Oh yea, (laughs), yea I think all the fellows had shirts and ties. 

Cheyenne: Can I see your picture?

 Joyce: Here’s Hellen, here’s Claudette… here I am with the glasses. 

Shows me some pictures

Joyce: We would get together, Hellen’s house was kind of a midpoint between mine and 

Claudette’s so we would meet at her house on the weekend and do these.  

Cheyenne: That must have been fun

Joyce: Laughs, It was. And I think, you know, we didn’t think we’d ever finish, but we did. 

Joyce: This is the English teacher who complemented our class thanked us for allowing her to continue teaching. And this was the music teacher. And she was funny, she was the secretary. She was a sketch. 

Cheyenne: What would she do?

Joyce: Oh she would tell you these things with an absolute straight face you know and then you would think uhh and then she would say oh just kidding (laughs). 

End Track 10

Track 11

Shows me some more teachers/staff in the yearbook

00:22

Cheyenne: Were there a lot of men here who came from the service or went to the army? 

Joyce: Yeah. Well almost all of these had been in the service. 

Shows more teachers

Joyce: Mrs. Pratt was our French teacher and she was the dean of girls, and this is Mr. Connor who was the dean of boys, and the tagline (in the yearbook) “what’s the story son?” (Laughs) 

1:40

Cheyenne: Did you have any superlatives, kind of, where it was most popular, anything like that? 

Joyce: I don’t know, I would have said that he, these two probably, and he, they were all excellent teachers. 

Cheyenne: What about within the students, did you do any voting like that for the students? Like in my high school, and now a day lots of high schools at the end of the senior pictures the whole class will vote nicest smile, or funniest, or most likely to succeeded?

Joyce: Oh yes we had a list in here like that; and former class members, well here class favorite teacher was Mr. Brusto. 

Cheyenne: So there are class celebrities?

Joyce. Yeah, laughs, yeah.

Cheyenne: How did they get picked? 

Joyce: Well I think we just sent a questioner around and had people fill out check. 

Cheyenne: Did people know who was going to win?

Joyce: I don’t think so.

Shows some more pictures

Cheyenne: Sports

Joyce: But notice they’re all males, nothing for females.   

3:44

Cheyenne: I know you said about eight of the women in your class went to mount Holyoke too? 

Joyce: Well for my class mount Holyoke gave eight tuition scholarships per year so there could be 32 at Mount Holyoke from South Hadley at any one time spread out over the four years.

Cheyenne: I was just wondering how many other female students do you think went on to college.

Joyce: Oh a lot of them did. A lot went to teacher’s colleges.

Cheyenne: Teachers? How come?

Joyce: Well in those days what was available for women? Teaching, nursing. I majored in French at mount Holyoke, and when I went to what is now career services, then it was the appointment bureau, when I told the lady I did not want to teach she said will I can’t do anything for you, (pause) and that was the extent of the help.

End Track 11

Start Track 12

Joyce: But I knew that there were business, like insurance companies and the telephone company that did hire college graduates, they weren’t fussy about what there major was but they felt that they could use, so I went to work for an insurance company, and worked there for about ten years.  

Cheyenne: So once you had gotten your college degree there wasn’t as much pickiness about that you were a woman, at least in those businesses?

Joyce: Oh well that’s very interesting. I went to work at Mass-Mutual and I had a cousin that had worked at Mass-Mutual but she left because she learned that a man doing the exact same work that she did got more money, and that was not acceptable to her.

Cheyenne: Right

Joyce: So she went into teaching after that. 

(Both Laugh)

Joyce: Because teachers, men and women, got the same pay. There could be differentials like if you were an advisor to a club or something like that the teacher would get extra money, but your base pay was the same men and women. 

Joyce: Many of them those who knew they wanted to be teachers, like Claudette she taught for many years, and Helen the other person that I mentioned who helped to write those descriptions in the year book, she taught. So many of them did teach, and I can think of half a dozen who went into nursing.  

Cheyenne: How about male students, I know you were saying that there were a lot of teachers that had come from the military, were there a lot of male students that were going into the military?

Joyce: We did mention that some of the students were thinking of going into the military, lets see 49, world war II was over, Korea hadn’t started, probably some of them did go into the service but I didn’t keep that much track of what the fellows were doing, you will have to talk to some of the males.  

End of Track

New Track

Joyce: Peopled looked out for each other, I don’t know where you’re from but as I said you couldn’t go too far without running into someone who knew you and that kind of extended like when we went into Holyoke. Holyoke was a lot different then than it is now. Most of our shopping was done in Holyoke, movie theaters were in Holyoke, and we took the bus into Holyoke or sometimes we walked over the bridge wherever we were going. I don’t know it just seemed like a safe atmosphere, I remember when my son was around high school age I would not let him go into Holyoke by himself. There wasn’t the Holyoke mall, that wasn’t there, and most of the stores were on High Street, Maple Street, and Holyoke. Sometimes we would go to Springfield, I remember one time that this lunch bunch that I ate with we decided, during I guess the Christmas vacation we took the train to Springfield. 

Cheyenne: Ohh.

Joyce: Yeah, wow, and we’d go shopping, go to the movies, and have lunch out and then take the train home.  Our parents, most of the time if we went any place we’d walk or took the bus, our parents would sometimes give us rides if they were going in that direction anyways. Not like parents later on, so it was a different atmosphere, I guess more small town, which was kind of nice. Where we live now, I live across the street from one of my high school classmates and there still are maybe a dozen that I see on a fairly regular basis because we are in some of the same activities.  

END INTERVIEW 

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Sofia Redford 

April 13, 2007

Sofia:  So, thank you again for doing this, we really appreciate it.  I know I’ve found it really interesting, I know I’ve only done one interview so far – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh?

Sofia:   – With Mike and Ruth Thornton, who graduated in ’55 and ’56, and 

Mrs. Galusha:  Hmm, Sorenson…

Sofia:  Yeah, Thornton, they both lived in the area, and they were high school sweethearts – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, my.

Sofia:  – so that was fun.  What year did you graduate?

Mrs. Galusha:  ’50.

Sofia:  ’50, ok.  And where – we were learning about some of the different geography of South Hadley, and there’s the Center, the Falls… where did your family live? 

Mrs. Galusha:  At that time, there were not enough people in any given community to have a high school, so it was South Hadley, South Hadley Falls, and Granby.  And it is here that I met my husband, – 

Melissa:  Oh, wow – 

Mrs. Galusha:  after he had gone to college, but I met him here.

Sofia:  And which area did you live in?

Mrs. Galusha:  I came from South Hadley center.

Sofia:  Oh, ok, and you said your family lived there, had they lived there for a while?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, they are the Dickinsons and the Smiths, and they are, um, we’re very prominent in the town.

Sofia:  Oh, is that like Dickinson Hall – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Pardon?

Sofia:  – like Dickinson Hall at Mount Holyoke?

Mrs. Galusha:  (laughs)  Actually, actually, Emily Dickinson is, well, it was this man who came over from England, and it was from this man that – it was one of the sons – Smith went this way, and Dickinson went that way, so, Emily was over here and I was over here.

Melissa: Oh, ok.

Sofia:  Oh, yup, yup.

Mrs. Galusha: so, actually, it was – 

Sofia:  – it was very much a part of –

Mrs. Galusha:  – that way.

Sofia:  Yeah, yes, that’s great.  And, did you enjoy your time in high school?  I know people tend to have mixed feelings, and –

Mrs. Galusha:  oh, (clears throat) yes, there was, you know, I think the South Hadley Falls people objected to the South Hadley center people coming in, and the South Hadley center people didn’t quite fit in with the South Hadley Falls people.  And Granby was some little hicky town and somewhere that neither one of us cared too much about. (laughs)   When I married my husband, I thought that I had stepped back a century (laughs) In Granby, there were some houses even in Granby that hadn’t even got electricity.

Melissa:  Really?

Sofia:  Oh, wow.

Mrs. Galusha:  So we came, and I worked as a high school student, I, I’m trying to think, the Mount Holyoke College would have, um, let me see, … well, they’d have a big mailing to go out, and so they would ask some of the students from high school to – so, I mean, I worked, and I knew about the college and everything.

Sofia:  Don’t mind me, I’m just going to close the door for the vacuum cleaner – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Sure.  Let’s see.  But other than that, we blended pretty well.  I had friends from South Hadley Falls and South Hadley Center.  I guess I really had a relative, a distant relative, that I was friends with from South Hadley Falls, so, so we did blend, you know, but there, there was – and also, don’t you think that there’s kind of this classism among high school kids?  

Sofia:  Yeah

Melissa:  Yeah, definitely, there’s always going to be some kind of hierarchy –

Mrs. Galusha:  yeah, – 

Sofia:  yeah – 

Mrs. Galusha:  And, so there was, but I think that’s competition, and we need to learn about competition, and as we get older, and by the time we’re our age, we know all about it and we don’t worry about it.

Melissa:  (laughs) yeah, but it’s a different story when you’re in high school, and you’re concerned with those things.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, you’re not even sure about yourself, you’re not mature, you’re just trying to find out who you are, and where you fit in the world and where you want to be.   And, – and having fun, too, that was very important, you know.  And some of them went the drinking way, and some of them went the parent way, and the rest of us went on to college (laughs).

Melissa:  Did you go on to college?

Mrs. Galusha:  I went to Holyoke Community, and I’m afraid that that’s all I have had.

Melissa:  Well, I’ve heard that it’s a very good school, actually, I live near there, – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, and I got the Nelium Cross Award for Business, and I worked for Mr. Foley in the History Department, and did a lot of his secretarial work, and I graduated from Holyoke Community in the upper part of my class, and I graduated with a degree in business administration.  So, I have worked a lot of my life.  I have three children, two of my own and one adopted little boy that needed a home, so we have adopted him and he never talks about his parents, he only talks about us as being Mom and Dad, and he is forty-one.  

Sofia:  And, did they go to the new South Hadley High School?  

Mrs. Galusha:  Ah, yes, um, we have a daughter who is a pastor over at Easthampton Congregational Church, and she, I believe, yes – I guess all the kids, I don’t remember – no, no she did not go to South Hadley, she went to the high school in Granby, so all of the kids did go, the three of them went to Granby High, to the high school.

Melissa:  Oh, alright.

Sofia:  I guess it’s just, as more and more people moved in and it got larger, they needed to expand that way – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, people did move in.  It was – I can’t tell you how different the town was when I was growing up, it has just multiplied, multiplied and multiplied.  We, my husband is a dairy farmer, but he’s not now, he is, we board horses and we have 100 acres, and we have sold some of it and invested it and this is how we’re living.  But it’s been a good life, and it’s nice to be out all the time, I think it keeps you healthy.

Sofia:  Absolutely.  

Mrs. Galusha:  So, anyway – I would say it was pretty normal around here – 

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Mrs. Galusha:  The teachers were good, for the most part (laughs) We had a fellow, and I won’t name him, but one of the professors – or no, not professors in high school, one of the teachers – had a drinking problem, and that had to be resolved, but we had a very nice Economic/History – um, I’m trying to think what his name was – but he was excellent, and Civics and all of that.

Sofia:  I heard stories about one English teacher who, that – 

Mrs. Galusha:  A woman?

Sofia:  Yeah, she was apparently a terror, and like locked people in the closet if they didn’t speak loudly enough, and then had to speak from the closet – I don’t know if she was around when you were – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Was that man or woman drinking when he – ?

Sofia:  No, she was a woman, and if you weren’t speaking loudly enough in class, you had to speak from the closet to make sure that everyone could hear you.

Mrs. Galusha:  I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Sofia:  No?  I was very surprised, so I didn’t know if she was sort of a legend, or  — 

Mrs. Galusha:  I think I might have the teachers names (opens year book)  Mr. Stevens, – Mr. Stevens was the principal, and he had a very ill wife, and he killed himself finally – not – after I was married, and he killed himself in the, the um, in the cemetery in Granby.  

Melissa:  Oh, my goodness.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Mr. Donald Stevens, he was a very nice man, but apparently very depressed.  There he is – very nice guy.  

Sofia:  Was there a lot of interaction – oh, he does look nice – between the students and principals?  Because I know sometimes principals sort of hold themselves – 

Mrs. Galusha:  No, no, he was a friend to everyone.

Melissa:  Oh, that’s wonderful.

Mrs. Galusha:  As far as I’m concerned – 

Sofia:  Mmm-hmm.

Mrs. Galusha:  Very available.  Very available.  

Melissa:  That’s one thing that interests me about  – you know, because this was such a small school at the time – you know, how close-knit it was, because  – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Let me show you the picture of, umm… great in sports, they were – 

Melissa:  Such an interesting dynamic, to be such a small community, and you know everybody, and – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, we did know everyone.  Where is this… oh, here it is.  Oh, wait a minute; let’s see… freshmen… let me see…[looking through yearbook for something] Oh, now here is Daniel O’Connell.  Very nice man, very nice man.  He was the French teacher.  Here’s another – [name unclear] – I think she – oh, Latin, mmm-hmm.  And, um, let’s see, English… I never had him.  Now, she I didn’t like too well.  

Melissa:  No?  

Mrs. Galusha:  She was French, I think.  Um, Ms. Brown?  No, let’s see.  She graduated from UMass, Smith, and Mount Holyoke.  She had very – she must have had allergies, because she had very dark – around her eyes.  Let’s see – Ms. Pratt was – I studied behind Ms. Pratt here.  She was a French teacher.  Real nice woman.  Um, here is Dan Connell – O’Connor – he was the one that was the good Civic teacher – or was he English?  I don’t know.  

Sofia:  Wow, you have teachers signing your yearbook, too.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, she was very nice.  Um, Ms. Carlson – a lot of the women were misses – miss, m-i-s-s, not m-r-s.  And mostly a very nice group of people, I would say, very capable.  Ok, here was the poor young man who had a drinking problem.  I felt very sorry for him.  

Sofia:  So students knew some about the lives of the teachers themselves?  Because I’m trying to think back on my high school years, and I was always – but, I was always the last to know anything about anything anyway, so it may just – 

Mrs. Galusha:  You were studious, right?

Sofia:  Yeah, I just never knew what was going on, so I – it just surprises me that students knew about, sort of the teachers lives, and that they – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, I think things have gotten a lot different now.  And it was a small school, it was a small sort of – we were, um – He, he taught bookkeeping.  I’m trying to think, he was the Latin Club, but he, no – Tommy Landers, oh he was the, um… he was the Coach.  He was – I didn’t know him at all.  He was… different.  Oh, he was the football guy.  I’m not into sports.  

Melissa:  Now, some – 

Mrs. Galusha:  I was a twirler.  

Melissa:  Oh really?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, I used to, you know [makes twirling motion with hand]

Melissa:  Now, someone was telling us that downstairs here was mostly, like the locker rooms, and – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, I never came down here much.  

Sofia:  No?

Mrs. Galusha:  This man here, Dan O’Connell, was next to the auditorium.  And that’s where he used to sneak out the door – he’d give us an assignment in bookkeeping and then he would sneak out the door and come back, and I, naïve, I didn’t know what was happening until, you know how gossip – you’ve ever played gossip?

Sofia:  Oh, yeah.

Melissa:  Mmm-hmm.

Mrs. Galusha:  So, hmm.  But I was business all through the… hmm.

Melissa:  Now I know that there were different tracks you could be on for classes, is that… someone was telling us that – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Tracks?

Melissa:  Like you could be on a – 

Sofia:  Yeah, a college course or a general, or a – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, yes.  Yes, and I was business.  

Sofia:  You were business.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes.

Sofia:  Ok.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, I was business.  Back then, if you didn’t go to college,  – and my parents weren’t all that rich, they were just average people, and so I went to Holyoke Community instead of college, um, which was in my – and I went business all through.  So, as I say, I worked for the teachers, for the History teacher, Mr. Foley… where’s Mr. Foley… there he is.

Sofia:  Did quite a few members of your class go on to college, or did many stay around?  Do you know?  I don’t know if you guys have kept in touch, or  – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, um, let’s see, I’m trying to think – I would say a good number went to college, a lot of them to Mount Holyoke as day students.  I could have, but I wasn’t – I don’t know, I just liked business.  And my husband, we run a business now, and I do the bookkeeping – electronically, but nevertheless, I do the business, and  – and it was right for me, I enjoyed it, and I enjoyed working in the library, and associating with all the professors, and you know, all of that, I thought it was good and I enjoyed it.

Sofia:  So you worked for Mr. Foley during high school – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes.

Sofia:  And you were also a twirler?  In the…

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, we – 

Sofia:  So was that for the  – 

Mrs. Galusha:  We led the parade, you know.  

Sofia:  Oh, fabulous.  

Mrs. Galusha:  You know, this sort of a thing [twirling motion with hand] and up and back – 

Sofia:  Yeah, I always wanted to do that… we didn’t have those at my high school – 

Mrs. Galusha:  You didn’t?

Sofia:  – but it was something that I always wanted to do.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Well we could go to the bas– I always enjoyed the basketball, so we went on the bus, we had fun, it was a lot of camaraderie.  And the parade, all over South Hadley, you know, we’d start down here, and then we’d go up to the South Hadley Center and there was the cemetery down there, … and so, it gave me a sports outlet  – but I wasn’t, I wasn’t a baseball player or  – 

Sofia:  Yeah.

Mrs. Galusha:  you know, I wasn’t in the band, I wasn’t as musical as I would like to be, but that’s the way life is, right, – 

Sofia:  Yes.

Mrs. Galusha:  My daughter plays the piano, and my son plays the piano, but I don’t.  My husband was a trumpeter, and he played in his graduating class, he was the one that played the trumpet solo.

Melissa:  Oh, wow.

Mrs. Galusha:  So we have music, but not as much as I’d like.  I love music, but God didn’t give me that talent.  

Sofia:  So was there – were you involved in any other activities in high school then?

Mrs. Galusha:  We also had religious education.  

Sofia:  Oh?

Mrs. Galusha:  And I was in that.  

Melissa:  So that was like an extracurricular activity, or was during the school day?

Mrs. Galusha:  Actually, yes, we had to go to a church.  You know, I don’t think they integrate that now – 

Melissa:  no.

Mrs. Galusha:  – and that’s ok – but that’s what they did for us, they called it Religious Education.  

Sofia:  So you would go to a church and… I guess I don’t quite understand what – what did you do for the Religious Education class, you would go to a church, or  – 

Mrs. Galusha:  It was, um, I believe it was some representative from a Church [clears throat] mine would be South Hadley Center, because that’s where I grew up, and married, and you know, everything.  I’m trying to… – you know, we had a Chess Club, Twirlers – oh yes, let’s see, oh here I am  – 

Melissa:  Oh, wow. 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yep, here I am, right there.  There’s the whole group of ‘em.  

Sofia:  Oh, that’s wonderful.  Oh, there’s a picture of you guys practicing.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Yep.

Sofia:  Did you have uniforms that you had to wear?  

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, we had to make them.

Sofia:  Oh, gosh.

Mrs. Galusha:  and we had the high white boots, and… yup, oh yes, of course… Cheerleading, Twirling, Ski Club, Science Club, Glee Club, Girl’s Vocal Ensemble, Orchestra, Band, Camera Club, Latin Club – 

Melissa:  Now as far as being involved in all the extracurricular activities like we were looking at and stuff like that,  – now because the high school is down here in the falls and you’re from the Center – did that make it difficult for you to do those things?

Mrs. Galusha:  Very, very.  I used to have to – if I stayed after school, for extracurriculum, I had to walk a mile to my house.

Melissa:  Really – 

Mrs. Galusha:  And back then, we didn’t have more than one car – if my dad was working, I’d have to walk.  But, I got good exercise, and I, I don’t think I suffered. (laughs)  My husband, he lived in Granby, and so sometimes he had to walk from South Hadley Falls to Granby, because there just was no…

Melissa:  So would you say then that more people from the Falls area were involved in those kind of activities?  Or – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, I don’t know – when you’re your age, walking isn’t  – I’ve walked from Mount Holyoke to my house in South Hadley, and it’s right across from the Golf Links that I lived, so  – and to ice skate, we used to come down to, um, you know, to Mount Holyoke from  – and that was an hour, I mean a mile, maybe a mile and a half – and we’d walk down, ice skate all afternoon, and walk back again.  So… you know, you people are lazy!  Although I know when I was at the college, we walked down to, to get the pay, and everywhere, we walked all around.

Melissa:  Yeah, you end up walking around a lot more than you think you do.

[Mrs. Galusha asks about the satellite library locations and the new construction on the Mount Holyoke campus, and Sofia answers her questions.  We also talked about the dorms.  (approx. 1 minute)]

Mrs. Galusha:  Ok, and the Spotlight was the magazine that we had, Art Club, and Junior Town Meeting, Varsity Debaters, Drama Club, Senior Play, Student Council, Promerito, – there we go…

Sofia:  Well, would you mind actually giving us a little tour of the high school, since we’re talking about it a little bit and there’s all – because we, I know I didn’t go here, and so I don’t know about the space.  And if you had the time – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Sure.

Sofia:  – and the inclination, we’d – 

Mrs. Galusha:  I mean, I’ll do my best,  – 

Sofia:  Absolutely – 

Mrs. Galusha:  – but you have to realize, I have been out of here more than fifty years.  

Melissa:  I know, and it is interesting because, you know, all of the rooms are used differently now.  I know half of the building used to be the town hall, and the other half was the high school – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Right.

Melissa: – and so now all of it is the town hall, right?

Mrs. Galusha:  I have no idea, I only know Granby Town Hall – I have not, as I say – I think the police station was down here, and I – I have a veterinary doctor son, and I tell ya, he was full of the dickens when he was growing up,  – 

Melissa:  Really?

Mrs. Galusha: – and, at least, when he was at college – he went to UMass for four years, and then to Purdue – but anyway, um (laughs) he would get into all kinds of trouble.  He had an ATV – all terrain vehicle – 

Sofia:  Ohh, yup.

Mrs. Galusha:  and the police didn’t like him going certain places.  And then he used to like to hot-rod it down Route 33 and the cops got him in South Hadley, and so he had to come here, and say he was sorry and everything, you know.  And they cancelled it because, “you look like a solid citizen so we’re gonna let you go, but watch it, boy.”  

Melissa:  Give’em a good scare, you know.

Mrs. Galusha:  That was the last time that he, um, you know… ok, um… (looking at yearbook again)  I guess this was the class – it was just – that was the whole high school class – that was the freshmen – so it’s not all that large, compared with – although, what is Mount Holyoke now?  They don’t have such large classes.

Sofia:  Um, it’s about twenty-one hundred, so there are about 500 per class.

Mrs. Galusha:  Really?  

Sofia:  Yeah.

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh my goodness.

Melissa:  Yeah, so needless to say, a little crowded lately.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, so that, that you can get the idea of.

Sofia:  Yup, absolutely.

[we get up and leave the room; the gentleman from the Hampshire Gazette asks if it is ok if he goes with us and takes some pictures.  There is a gentleman vacuuming the stairs.  We go up to the first floor from the basement.] 

Mrs. Galusha:  When we were here, there were veterans from some war – I can’t  remember what war it was – and they would come back, and this was their room in here, where they were taking, you know, they were gonna get their high school diploma.

Melissa:  Oh, ok, so you had – after they went to the war, they could come back and take classes?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah.  Yeah, they’d come back here, … and the office was over here.  This was the office, and … this is where I used to come a lot.  Um, I don’t remember coming that way.  I believe – 

Sofia:  The auditorium is there – 

Mrs. Galusha:  That was – that was a classroom, but it was not blocked off.  [we walk into the auditorium.]  Ok – uh-oh, they’ve shut the door.

Sofia:  Oh?

Mrs. Galusha:  There was a door, going into our – see, that room there – there were two rooms, they have blocked it off, they have shut this off.  This is where we used to perform [indicating the stage]; this is where we had all the dances.  

Sofia:  Did you have a lot of dances?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, long gowns and everything, and men – men, young men – they’d bring you in, and we’d come in this door, and it was very festive and very nice.  It was fun, all dressed up in long gowns.

Sofia:  Yup.

Melissa:  Mmm-hmm.

Mrs. Galusha:  But this is the door that he used to sneak out of – 

Melissa:  Oh, ok – 

Mrs. Galusha:  And where he had the bottle, I have no idea.  But these – up above here, I think was… and I wasn’t… maybe in back of here, there used to – ok, they had biology and science.

Sofia:  oh, ok.

Mrs. Galusha:  And I only took the required course, because I wasn’t interested in that.  

Sofia:  And then, basketball games were in here?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, oh yes.  

Melissa:  In here, really?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yep, and the dances and everything, and the orchestra – and we, we had a group of boys that had, um, had an orchestra, so we used the orchestra – 

Sofia:  Oh, that’s great.

Mrs. Galusha: – from the kids, it was very, very nice.

Sofia:  Oh, wow.

Mrs. Galusha:  – and the book is downstairs, I’ll show you the kids.  

Sofia:  Did you have dance cards and everything for the dances, that everyone had to  sign in?

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, yes, and little pencils – I probably could see them, but, yeah, – and, you know, I just loved that.  I loved getting dressed up, I loved, you know – ‘course, we all had to mush into – that’s how I met my husband – 

Melissa:  Really?

Mrs. Galusha:  My husband had the car, and the one I was with, I guess he didn’t have a car, I don’t remember.  Or he couldn’t have the family car that night.  Anyway, we’d mush – these six of us’d mush into the – it was nice, you know, … (laughs)

Sofia:  So, now you mentioned the other room, it was the veteran’s room – were they – so, did they – 

Mrs. Galusha:  So, are we going this way?

Sofia:  Either way, or we could go upstairs, which ever you would prefer.

Mrs. Galusha:  Well there’s – I don’t – I didn’t  – 

Sofia:  Ok, so that was all Biology and Science upstairs?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, you can ask the next person. 

Sofia:  Absolutely.  So now, were the veterans in your classes – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah –

Sofia:  – or did they all take that one class there – 

Mrs. Galusha:  No, no, they studied – this was their home room, 

Sofia:  Oh, ok.

Mrs. Galusha:  They kind of had their lunch together, it was camaraderie, you know.  And of course the coll – the high school kids – ‘oh boy!’ – they’ve got the cars, and…

Sofia:  Yup.  

Mrs. Galusha:  But they were all very nice, and very respectful.  I imagine that they’d leave the girls alone.

[noise from the vacuum is very loud, hard to hear for about ten seconds.]

Mrs. Galusha:  I don’t know.

Sofia:  Yeah, I  – from what I’ve heard, they changed it – 

Mrs. Galusha:  They changed it, yeah.  Yeah, because I, I just know I was – I know where I had a – I sat behind a teacher that – these, these were classrooms, and I know – Now, what’s over here?  

Sofia:  There’s an exit out that way.  

Mrs. Galusha:  See, they’ve blocked it all up, but it was in, in that section that we had our English – French and English class.  

Sofia:  Ok.

Melissa:  Can we go out there?  Can we go through those doors?  

Mrs. Galusha:   I don’t know, I – 

Sofia:  There’s just a stair – stairs down to an exit.

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, is that all there is?

Sofia:  Yeah, I think, I believe – actually, no there’s one room over here, that it’s now like the town meeting room?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, yes yes yes.  Ok, this was where I used to sit in back and study in French.  And the one right above it was the Civics class.  And I remember going, you know, to that.  Yup, ok, this was the French room, so this is where they taught – 

Melissa:  So how many people would be in your French class?  

Mrs. Galusha:  Twelve.

Melissa:  Twelve?

Sofia:  Nice, small classes.

Mrs. Galusha:  That’s why they could have maybe six or seven students studying in the back.  

Sofia:  Oh?

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh, I can even remember, there was one little situation that I got blamed for that wasn’t fair, but anyway, um, there was a teacher, French teacher here, and we were in our bookkeeping class, and somebody said that [passing some other people going through doorway] somebody said that there were two or three girls who were cheating.  And I don’t know, but some how or other I got caught up in that, and well I don’t know why.  So anyway, to discipline us she brought us in to the French teacher here while she was teaching, and – it was the woman with the dark eyes – 

Sofia:  Uh-huh.

Mrs. Galusha:  – and anyway, she chastised us in front of the whole class.

Melissa:  Oh, no.

Mrs. Galusha:  I was so embarrassed.  I’ll never forget it. 

Melissa:  It’s amazing how those things stay with you.

Mrs. Galusha:  I didn’t cheat, but some how or another, we were – some how or another, we were told that we did – 

Sofia:  Yup.

Mrs. Galusha:  – and we, I very – I remember going home, and crying and crying, “Mother, they charged me with something I didn’t do.”  But that happens once in a while.  Anyway, so that was  – [journalist from the Gazette is taking pictures, she comments on how she looks in pictures.]  Anyway, so this was – and then upstairs, was where we had our Civics class.  [Vacuum noise again; mumbling, looking for correct stairway to go up.]  This was where we had our Civics class.  

Sofia:  It seems like you have fond memories of that class, judging by your smile.

Mrs. Galusha:  (laughs)… That was the typing room.  I took of course typing and shorthand.  

Sofia:  I took typing, too.

Mrs. Galusha:  Did you?  

Sofia:  Yeah.

Mrs. Galusha:  It’s just very important; I mean if you don’t know the keyboard, you know, the computer – 

Sofia:  I know, it is, absolutely.

Mrs. Galusha:  So this was our typing class, in here.  This was all typewriters, all over the place.  I remember running down here and getting there – and that was fun, I enjoy every part of business – bookkeeping… you know, I’m the bookkeeper of the church, you know, they call it Financial Recording Secretary, but whatever.  And I’ve done that for many, eight years.  So let’s go upstairs – 

Sofia:  Sure, absolutely.  We’re following you.

Mrs. Galusha:  I remember walking down these stairs, oh, boy, to get to bookkeeping class.  Sometimes two steps at a time (laughs)

Sofia:  So now, were there different years in a class?  So would there be freshmen, and sophomores, and juniors and seniors in the same class, or…

Mrs. Galusha:  Actually, there were… um, ahh, I don’t remember.  Mostly students from the same level.

Sofia:  Yeah.

Mrs. Galusha:  Same, yeah, I would say.  Ok, let me stop and think now.  

[we run into someone that Mrs. Galusha knows in the Special Education office – she knew the woman’s mother, they lived in Granby, where Mrs. Galusha has lived since she got married.  They talk about how family members are, and Mrs. Galusha tells the woman what we’re doing.  This takes approx. 1:30]

So this was, over here, was – 

Woman:  a hallway.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, um, and then… that was, that was the Civics room.  This was where that nice man taught.  But, but this – this wasn’t here, it went all the way – [pointing to a wall dividing two rooms]

Sofia:  Oh, uh-huh.

Mrs. Galusha:  But they have split it up, and, yeah, we used to look out here, and see who was going by.

Melissa:  Yeah.  

Sofia:  Dream of when the day would be over.

Mrs. Galusha:  (laughs) Yeah.  But anyway – 

Sofia:  Did you guys have a lunchroom that you ate in, or did you eat lunch – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Out.

Sofia:  Out?  

Mrs. Galusha:  Out, or brought a sandwich and sat in one of the classrooms and ate.

Melissa:  Oh, ok.

Mrs. Galusha:  No, we didn’t have – but, but let me see now,  – oh, this is another thing – well, [says goodbye to the woman whose office we were standing in] Ok, let’s see.  Yes, in the basement,  – ok, you want to go down to the basement?

Sofia:  Sure.  

[We go down the stairs to the basement.]

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes.  That was the Home Ec. Room, Home Economics room, yes.  And I had charge of the milk, ordering the milk, and doing all of those kind of things.  People got me busy, and  –

Sofia:  Yes, it seems like you were quite involved, helping out all over the place.

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes.  When Mount Holyoke retired me, I went to our church, and worked for the minister there.

Melissa:  Oh, wow.  

Mrs. Galusha:  So I’ve done a lot of business and bookkeeping.

Sofia:  Yeah.  

Mrs. Galusha:  But, you know, if you follow your – if you follow your talents, – I’m a very organized person, I keep my husband on a straight and narrow – although he graduated from UMass – he wasn’t, you know… ok, I don’t know.  This doesn’t look familiar at all.

Sofia:  Yeah, I think this was the guys’ locker room, back here, and  – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, I never went to the guys’ locker room.  I don’t know, it was somewhere down here – 

Sofia:  Was the Home Economics room?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah.

Sofia:  Oh, ok.  

Mrs. Galusha:  I don’t know where it was.

Sofia:  Did everyone have to take Home Ec.?

Mrs. Galusha:  No.

Melissa:  No?

Sofia:  It was one of the tracks?

Mrs. Galusha:  It was the – it was the business part.  I believe, later on, that even some of the men – boys – had to take some of the ec- home economics – 

Sofia:  Excellent.  

Mrs. Galusha: (laughs) Because, ahh, well my son does mostly all the, all the cooking in the house.  He comes home, and they’ve got two children, and so he – his wife is tired by the end of the day, so he has the – [talks about her children and her grandchildren for about 1 minute.]  So I don’t know, but somewhere in here – seems to me, it was in here – they’ve blocked off so many places, that – 

Journalist: It’s all storage.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah, yeah – because this was the – I used to run down the stairs and run in here, and I was in charge of the milk, ‘cause we sold milk – to be responsible for that.  And I used to help the teacher do some cooking and stuff, because I mean, I enjoy that, and I’m, I’m very domestic.  So, anyway.  

Melissa: Ok.

Sofia:  Thank you! [we go back to the room where we started] So, I think then, just in wrapping up, we should ask if there was anything that we didn’t ask, that you wish we had asked you, that you thought, “Oh, that was a story I was really hoping to tell,” or anything of that sort.  

Mrs. Galusha:  Same old – every high school – I mean, we had our hurts, and our pleasures, and we all graduated (laughs)

Sofia:  That’s not something a lot of high schools can say now, so – 

Mrs. Galusha:  Uh, yeah, I guess so, yes, that’s changed a lot.  No, I would say that, I think in our senior year that we, I sort of gravitated to Amherst, North and South Amherst with some friends, we liked to square dance and so I associated with a few of my friends there.  This – this girl, Ruth [takes out yearbook] Ruth Eastman, [looking for her picture] I just wonder if she – a lot of these people die – 

Sofia:  Have you guys had any reunions?

Mrs. Galusha:  Oh yeah, yeah – that’s why I know.  Oh, oh no, it would be “B” for Bray, that’s right, she  – 

Melissa:  Is that her?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yes, that’s Ruth.  With red, red hair.  Ruth Ann.  And I still associate with her.

Melissa: Really?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yep, she lives in Amherst, married a teacher in the art department that was in Belchertown – oh, let’s see, he was in the Belchertown schools, he taught art in Belchertown – and she’s in Amherst, and she’s still my friend.

Sofia:  That’s great.  

Mrs. Galusha:  And this poor man, David Barney, lost his life in the, what, Korean – 

Melissa:  Yeah?  

Mrs. Galusha: -War, and, um… I still associate with this girl, from Granby.  She lives in Granby. [points to a picture of one of the class officers.] 

Melissa:  Did she live in Granby when she was growing up?

Mrs. Galusha:  Yeah.

Melissa:  I was curious, because, you know, Granby being so far away, and them having trouble being involved in things, no?

Mrs. Galusha:  Really?  Oh, no.  Rita, yeah… here was a real nice – Ms. Gilligan, she was the, uh – I did work for her.  Frederick Winters was a love, he was music.  I don’t know the other lady too much, but… here we are, Mabel Pratt, this is the – I used to sit behind her class in French.  And Dan O’Connell was the Civics teacher.  And I think that’s all… here’s the lady that chastised me.  Never forgot her.  

Sofia: (laughs) no.  

Mrs. Galusha:  I mean, she was trying to do a good job, but I was scared to death, and I was not – I did not cheat.  Anyway.  So, that’s  – this is the whole class.  Not too many, huh?  Anyway.  So.  [We thank her again, and end the interview.]  

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewers: Tenzin Dolkar and Stephanie Maher 

Spring 2007

Track 9

SM: Well how about to get us started off, you guys both tell us  if your families are from South Hadley? Were you born in South Hadley? Raised?

Mary: Born in South Hadley

Wayne: We were both, really

SM: And your parents were from South Hadley as well?

Wayne: Yes

SM: Or did they come from different places?

Mary: No

SM: Really? That’s great.

Mary: Well, they weren’t born here, but spent most of their lives here

SM: And, what kind of work did they do?

Mary: Umm, my mother really was a home-maker, she worked later on at a green-house, loving plants and so forth. My father worked at a (Hage’s) cleaner and then he did some refinishing furniture and then he ended up working at a greenhouse also.

SM: And was that in SH as well?

Mary: Yes. South Hadley

Wayne: And my mother was employed before she was married, at one of the local mills that are no longer existent but they were on the river, right up here just below the dam. And my father was employed for a long, long, long time at the ( printers) wire company in Holyoke. And he ultimately was a foreman in the wire drawing department. In those days to get wire to be the right size diameter they used to draw it through a diamond hole. To stretch it, so that was his crew, that did that work. 

L: What year did you both graduate from SH high school?

Mary: 1949

L: Have you attended any reunions since then?

Wayne: Yea. Sure. Everyone except one, that we missed. And we are looking forward to our 60^th.

Mary: 60^th. (laughter) 

Wayne: And it’s turned out that the folks that were involved in the earlier reunions felt that they had done enough.  And so the best man at our wedding who was also in the class of ’49 and myself have agreed that we are just gonna run the reunion and that’s the way it’s going to be. (laughter)

SM: That’s quite an undertaking, isn’t it?

Wayne: Well, we are not gonna make a big, big deal of it, but we’ll make the arrangements. And we’ll try to get a list of all the deceased members; now that’s a very important item you see. (laughter) You have to do that and you know we’ll have a good time.

SM: Where is it going to be held? just out of curiosity.

Wayne: You know, we are not certain of that

SM: Does it change locations? Every year?

Wayne: Yea, no. yes, it has changed, come to think of it. Every reunion has been a different location. We have or I have in the back of my mind the possibility that, you may have heard something about the (Lege’s) golf course, in South Hadley?

SM: You know I haven’t. I am still new here.

Wayne: Never mind then. It is a source of some dispute within the town about the expenditures on the golf course. And they are proposing to put up a very nice bar and grill (Mary: a club-house) and they don’t have one now except for the trailer. So a golf course without a club-house is not a golf course. And it’s in a super location overlooking the Connecticut River and Mount Tom range. (Mary: beautiful spot) We would very much like to have it there. It seemed to be appropriate, so that’s our thinking at the moment. That’s just in our thinking state. 

TD: After graduation, what did you go on to doing? Was it work? Was it further studies?

Mary: Well, I went to (Fermingham) College in (Fermingham); teacher’s college. It was a all women’s school when I went but now they have men going. I graduated there and then taught up at Amherst. Then I had our family which is quite large (laughter) and then when the youngest was in 1^st grade then I went back to teaching. I went to Holyoke inner city school and I actually stayed there until I ended, or retired actually.

Wayne: I, immediately upon graduating went through the technology in Boston. And that was a 2 years school. They weren’t granting bachelor’s degrees at the time. But they subsequently sent us all of us a bachelor’s degree. Very significant (laughter). But that opened the doors; it was mainly electronics. Now electronics back in those days; they were the vacuum tubes and sort of stuff and a lot different than today.  And so I went to work in Chicopee for about 3 years for a company that was making electronic equipment for the armed forces and this was during the Korean War. And toward the end of the war I was approached by a utility in Holyoke, the Holyoke Water Power company and they wanted if I would like to come work for them and I said yes, I think I would. And that was a wise decision because I spent several years there; had a very wide experience doing all kinds of things. One of the things was to be involved with building of the Mount Tom Power plant which you may be aware of. It’s up the river. Some people don’t like it because it burns coal but that’s ..(mumble). Anway that was a great experience. Ultimately water power was bought out by  Northeast utility, which is a very wide utility in CT and in western MA. So I then went to work for Northeast utility of western Mass electric company and so I stayed there until it was time to retire. 

L: So I guess you had children who attended the new SHHS?

Wayne&Mary: Yes. Oh yes.

L: So how would you say the new HS compare to when you went to the old one?

Mary: Quite different (laughter). We obviously went here, we used this auditorium, not as a classroom. We used it for all our whatever we had that: glee club, all our, most of our dances, proms and so forth were held here. But you know we had maybe one or two English teachers, one or two history teachers, maybe only one, Mr. (Foley), one teacher. We had not the extensive program that they have now. Of course we had just the, you took the college course or you took the secretarial course and you are pretty much programmed with what you took. There are so much added now or even when our children were going to school, had a lot more variety of courses and choices, electives and so forth. We were very, very limited, as to what we could take.

SM: And that’s probably in part because of the size of this school, right?

Mary: Oh right. Yes. There was no physical education for girls at that point. Was just the boys that had it. and so I was very at a disadvantage when I went to college because everybody knew how to play basketball and we had to take it, you had to do all of the sport things and so it was really a learning experience from there. 

Wayne: This was a size limitation that was (cofty?) or (come?). They did add an addition. You can see it out there, that’s the annex. And that initially was not there. And that provided a few more classrooms as the number of students increased. It was still a size restraints everywhere. Because at the same time, of course this was still a town hall too. So the board of selectman were here, the town clerk treasurer was here, and they all had offices. And there was some vaults in the cellar that were used for keeping you know money, receipts, and all that sort of thing. I call it the cellar, it’s the basement and we had some classes in the basement too. You know it was size restrictive. This room(auditorium) we are in is very historic in the (annels) of athletics of South Hadley because this was the only gym we had and we had some very, very excellent basketball teams. This is, and at that time was the smallest gym that any school had. It’s very, very short this way for a basketball gym. And the width is restrained too. They allowed us to use it and we had just great basketball teams and we had one coach for everything. One male coach for baseball, football, basketball.

SM: He was a renaissance man (laughter)

Mary: There was you know no golf teams, 

Wayne: And boys phys-ed.

Mary: And we, the girls

Wayne: The girls were left out of everything. There were no locker spaces for them. There was a boy’s locker room downstairs. 

Mary: There was no title 9. (laughter)

Wayne: No, no. so you know, that was a restraint, a restraining effort. But I think the quality of staff that we had in the, the principal of the high school and the superintendent too were very, very devoted to education and especially to South Hadley. Those were the days when if you like the community you just decided you were going to stay there. As opposed to the moving around that takes place today. And they all stayed here and really contributed to..

Mary: Well the principal taught algebra, and so was the principal. The vice principal taught economics and couple of other classes. Our French teacher had a PhD and she was also dean of girls.

SM: That’s great, so the administrators were really 

Mary: Very much involved. They were also in charge of the clubs that we had: the French club, the latin club, 

Wayne: And the ski club

Mary: And the ski club (laughter). Which was for boys (laughter).

Wayne: No, no, no no, no. we had women

Mary: Did you have women?

Wayne: Sure. Nancy Woodward was one of the members.

Mary: Oh that’s right.

Wayne: Yes, indeed, that was open to anyone. (laughter)

SM: Now were you guys, hope you don’t mind me asking, were you a couple in high school? Or was it not until after you graduated?

Wayne: (laughter). No really. Not really, there was some affinity I think. It didn’t mature until after we had left high school and examined the ways of the world and ultimately decided that we had the best right here.

(laughter)

TD: You were saying that there were different classes and different teachers and stuff like that. Do you remember any specific ones that were your favorite class or teacher?

Mary: That were very what?

Wayne: favorites. Favorite class or a favorite teacher.

L: or at least favorite class.

Tenzin Dolkar

Anthr 275

Interview: Wayne and Mary Boulais

5 The Knolls

South Hadley, MA

533-3338

Track 10

Mary: Well, history for one, I thought Mr. (Foley) was an excellent teacher. He really made history come alive since he did not, which was typical at the time, lecture. He actually you know did was very much into projects and had us doing. We were always involved in whatever the discussion was on and research and so forth. It was very inspiring. English teachers too were very good. We had Mr. (Skull) and a Ms. (Botanic?) who were very, very much in, into really getting us to write well, to speak well. And we had to take speech as well, I think. 

Wayne: Yes, we did.

Mary: We had to take speech class. Mr. (Foley) was also in charge of the debating team, which I was on for a couple of years. But I found that it was not my forte. (laughter) But he was also very, very dedicated to really trying to get everyone involved and interested in furthering their education as well. I know the vice principal was one that actually really discuss going on to college and so forth with my parents never went to college and my brothers were in the service at that time. But they eventually did go on to college and… One brother has a PhD and has done really well so that I think it all came, really started at the high school where they inspired us to really do our best. With what limited space we had and the classes we were offered. 

SM: I wonder if some of the teachers that you had here inspired you to become a teacher.

Mary: Well, not per, I don’t think anyone in particular did. I didn’t really start out saying that that’s what I really want to be but I think many things were fairly limited at that time. You either taught probably or you as a woman or you were a nurse. There were not a lot of opportunities. They started branching out I think when we were in college that, of that sort of thing but there weren’t really a whole lot of choices.

Wayne: who was the assistant principal?

Mary: Dan (Connor)

Wayne: Oh Dan (Connor), that’s right. That’s right. Ok. Dan (Connor), I remember, I was in the football team and we played right across the street in the bistros. One Saturday afternoon he called me over and he said, I want you to know that there’s a fella in the back. He’s watching you; he’s keeping an eye on you. You are probably gonna hear from him later on. And I thought, I don’t really think so. That never did happen but that’s the kind of fellow he was. I was also in an (errand?) with the English department and the speech activities, Ms. (Drisco). To this day, I shudder when I watch some television and I fall in the same trap sometimes myself but you know it’s, it run, runnin’, walkin’, this, that the –ings have disappeared. (laughter) And I was taught (laughter) so I have a tough time listening to that. Mr. (Bristel) I think (Mary: yes, he was good) without my knowing it, he was a technical person and algebra, geometry and I think he instilled in me some technical interest that just never blossomed when I was here but ultimately it developed. And he came to one of our last reunions just prior to his death. Didn’t he? (Mary: right, yes) And I talked with him and I thanked him you know and it was great to see the man and realize that he was the one that tipped me in the direction I ended up in. So that was good. 

Mary: Many of them, the teachers that we had in high school did come back to our reunions. So it was kind of fun to see them and reminisce and so forth. 

Wayne: Ms. Pratt, the French teacher, she was a wonderful person but I was not a linguist (laughter). I couldn’t understand the French and I tried to take Latin and that oh that was a terrible disaster. (laughter) And Ms. Pratt too came to several of our reunions. She lived in Essex Junction, Vermont and she would drive down here and tell us all about Essex Junction. (laughter) Great. I think those you know what Mary said and I said demonstrates the kind of faculty that we had and the relationship that evolved. It was nice. 

Mary: We had a tiny chemistry room that was very small lab. It was almost like a closet actually, it was so small and most of, we rarely had the chance to individually or even in partners to do experiments. Most of the experiments was done in front of the classroom and we would take notes (laughter) and then you know that type of situation but it was again a space problem. I think there must have been at least two or three ballot questions before we actually got approved to build a new high school and it was not an easy situation to convince people that we needed a new school. It took a while.

Wayne: The chemistry reminded me, I have to tell you about Mary’s brother. He was a bit ahead of us but he was always strongly interested in chemistry. He did a fantastic job and understood it really well, has his PhD in chemistry and so he was up in this little chem lab one time and was doing something that he had not paid attention to and it was acid that began eating through the floor and ultimately found its way down to the principal’s office (laughter) directly underneath. 

Mary: That’s where the chem lab was, up above.

Wayne: Fortunately the principal took it in good style (laughter) but you know those are kind of things that happen in a school that’s not equipped or fitted to do the activities that they are undertak(ing)

Mary: It’s amazing I think that our faculty stayed as long as they did you know you would think that they would think there’s got to be a better place to teach than this small little school but again as Wayne said I think they were very, very dedicated and enjoyed the town. South Hadley is kind of unique anyway. 

L: So what did you do after classes were over? Were you part of any specific extracurricular activities like sports or something like that? Or music?

Wayne: Oh I mentioned that I played football and we did some skiing, or I did some skiing and the fellow that I mentioned earlier, the classmate that’s going to work on the reunion, lived closed to where I lived. He and I decided for two years we would manage, we would be the managers for the basketball team. Now that was a thrilling experience. It’s unheard of because I mentioned the coach and he was a wonderful guy and did everything he could for his athletes but he was very superstitious about all kinds of things. For instance, when we were scoring and if you wanted to do some writing there was one pencil to use, only one pencil, that was his good luck pencil and so we had to guard that. And we could never let anything happen to that pencil because if we lost it, we would get shot, I guess. (laughter) At the conclusion of the workout when the teams, you know they are shooting baskets and getting all set for the game to start, he had another superstition that he had to touch every single basket, practice basketball, before we put it in the ball bag. And heaven help us if we didn’t get to have him touch it. He had all these little things about him but he did very well in developing winning teams. So those are my after school activities. 

Mary: I was in glee club and we practiced part of the time after school. And it was a yearbook staff and that was done pretty much after school. I was very active in girl scouts at that time also. We had a pretty good sized senior girl scout troop that we did several service projects for. Can’t remember that I was, and I mentioned the debating team (laughter)( Wayne: yes you did) which was after school also. I think that was it.

Wayne: I guess I forgot to mention my other activity was boy scouts too. I was very active in boy scouts and ultimately became an eagle. But that’s the sort of thing you (want?) toward the end of your high school year.

Mary: Yes, I don’t think I was, I don’t think it, scouting, lasted all the way through high school but it certainly was at least 2 or 3 years of high school. I did a lot of babysitting.

SM: Now for the yearbook committee that you were on, did you meet here in the high school after school to work on the yearbook?

Mary: Yes. hmm-mm. 

TD: You lived around the area, right? (Wayne: hmm-mm) Did you walk to school, or did you take the bus or did you drive to school?

Wayne: I never drove to school. I always walked to school until I graduated from South Hadley High School because I was close enough so that it was in walking distance. It would not be walking distance today. Today there’s hardly anybody that walk to school I think. I think everybody is on the bus or the parents drive them but when I went to elementary school that was nearby and we did not have a way to have lunch there at all so I would walk down to the school, back home for lunch and back to the..

Stephanie Maher did the following trasncription:

Boulais Interview Track 11 and first half of 12 (to 7:30 minutes)

Mr. Boulais: …school and then at the conclusion of the day and back home again. And that walk was probably about 20 minutes each time. And then it’s close to the rotary up here as they, if you come in from Holyoke right on that area. And of course then the High School here was even further but we were able to have our lunches here somehow, I don’t really quite remember all of that.

Mrs. Boulais.: Lunches were in the home room or a lot of people went out because I think we had about an hour for lunch which is about unheard of now, it’s like 20 minutes, but we did have about an hour for lunch and there were 2 or 3 restaurants, little sandwich shops that many people walked to or you had, you brought your lunch there was no lunch service at all.

MR.: No.

Stephanie: Oh, okay, so there was no kitchen here?

MR.: No.

MRS.: No, no. When I was in Grammar school, I walked part of the time. I didn’t, we did have bus service. I was, probably, a little over a mile from. We lived in a different part of the town… as when we were younger and I didn’t actually meet Wayne until I was in high school…

MR.: Hm-Hm, that’s right.

MRS.: So… but I would often walk home, again we had an hour for lunch, we would walk home for lunch, during the nice weather, and then walk back. We had one room in the basement of an elementary school which is now The Christian School up in the Center … it’s down on Hadley Street… that’s where I went to Grammar school and … it was one room, as I said in the basement and this, a woman, Mrs. Krug used to make soup and she would, we could buy the soup, and there were tables set up in this, what they called the lunch room, but it was still in the basement of the building, and then we would have our own sandwiches but we could always have hot soup, so…

Tenzin: So I was wondering, so when you walked to school, were you ever late? And was there, like, no, a detention after school that you had to attend?

MR.: Not that I recall.

MRS.: I don’t recall ever being late. No, I don’t recall, even in the High School, people coming in late. When our own children were in school, you’d hear a lot about being late for school and having detention, but I don’t…

Stephanie: You were a very prompt group.

MRS.: I guess….

MR.: I guess…

MRS.: Either that… Maybe someone else remembers that we were, but I don’t, I don’t remember that.

MR.: There were, there were lots of possibilities. With the walking, especially in the Winter to be late, but I don’t recall that it ever occurred. We had a very… where I lived there were sidewalks all the way. Streets were ploughed and the sidewalks were ploughed but the sidewalk was done on a contract by an old farmer who had a horse, and it was a horse-drawn plough that did the sidewalks, believe it or not. And he would get up bright and early and then usually had the sidewalk ploughed for us when it was time for us. . .

MRS.: Or the whole town 

MR.: For us to walk down to school.

MRS.: We had sidewalk also. When I was in high school, I had to, we… took a bus, but had to walk, oh, maybe an eighth of a mile or so to get the bus and then, the same distance coming home.

MR.: Speaking of buses, I don’t know if you are aware, that there were also students from Granby.

MRS.:  …that’s right.

MR.: …that came to school here, and they were all bussed in, of course, Granby… you know, is up the road, and, they didn’t have a high school so that they were students here, and I think some of the people that you will be interviewing were Granby residents at the time.

MRS.: At least two.

MR.: But that was a handicap for them for extra-curricular activities, because, you know, the bus wasn’t going to wait for them. So, I don’t remember how that got addressed, but some of them…

MRS.: Well… I don’t…

MR.: Maybe they had a late bus for Granby…

MRS.: I think they did have a late bus… for some activities. I know they had it for sports, and they probably did for some activities. Especially… because I know there were Granby people in the Glee Club, and so that they would have been able to get back and forth.

Stephanie: Do you guys still keep in contact with a lot of friends that you had in high school or a select few?

MR.: I think a fair number.

MRS.: A fair number.

MR.: A fair number, especially if they live in town, and a lot of them do.

MRS.: A lot of them do. We have quite a few people that live in town.

MR.: And then… and then there are some out of town that…

MRS.: Right, out-of-town people that…

MR.: …that we’re still friendly with.

MRS.: Still friendly with, see once in awhile… once a year anyway.

MR.: You know, with a little group like we have, you tend to be a little bit close-knit… it’s just a logical thing…

MRS.: I think we only had maybe 90 in our class…

MR.: Yeah

MRS.: We maybe started out with a little over a hundred but we’d… I know some people even dropped out, a handful maybe, before graduation. Some went, left, started school and then went to private school. Some went to… A typical one was Mount Herman and…

MR.: Williston?

MRS.: Williston.

MR.:  And then that school of girls

MRS.: And then there was a girls’ part of …

MR.: That where Amy went?

MRS.: Yes, Amy and… Charlotte…

MR.:  Yeah.

MRS.: Somewhere in Northfield.

MR.:  There was…

MRS.:  Northfield School for girls, that’s what it was called. I think it’s defunct now.

MR.:  Yeah, well part of Northfield is closed. The Northfield campus is closed.

MRS.:  The Northfield campus now is closed.

MR.: The Mount Herman campus is open. There was no class distinctions at all that ever existed that I could discern within South Hadley High School. There were obviously some people who were very well off, like Judge Nolan’s daughter, Betty Nolan.      

MRS.:  Right, yeah, yes.

MR.:  You know, just as an example, and…, the … Charlotte…

MRS.:   Ellison?

MR.:  Ellison. but, that was not a distinction.

MRS.:  No. Everyone was.. we were pretty friendly, cohesive group.

MR.:  There were willing to be as friendly as anybody with us, and us with them. Obviously we didn’t come from big money family, but there just was none of that that existed. If they were having a party-I remember Nolan’s parties, you know…

MRS.:  Right.

MR.:  We’d all get invited and everybody’d come, come on (chuckles), so that… it was, it was good from that standpoint.

MRS.:  We would decorate, when we had dances or in the beginning…, I think maybe Freshman and Sophomore year in High School, we had our, our special dances here, proms and so forth, were right in this room right here, and we’d decorate it, and… of course this was all done after school; no bus for that, however. I don’t remember how we got home, but anyway, but there was, you know, the regular bus that ran along Newton Street, you could also… city bus, that went all the way, all the way up to the South Hadley Center.

Stephanie:  So was that fun decorating the space?

MRS.:  It was, it was, yes, yes…

MR.:  I didn’t do any of that

(Laughter all around)

MR.:  There were people that, you know, would be talking about the Center “dandies” .Now, the Center, of course, South Hadley’s Center, was considered to be, you know, a little bit more wealthy, and… but that was good-natured jabbing. There was nothing serious about it at all.

Stephanie:  I wonder about your kids, then, who went on, on to the bigger high school, how their experience was different than yours, particularly in terms of the social aspects of school; did they encounter a lot of cliques and, that sort of thing, in their experiences of high school, do you think?

MRS.:  I think a little bit more than we did.

MR.:  Yeah, yeah.

MRS.:  I’m going by the kinds of things that they got interested in. For our children they were, many of them interested in music, so, they almost all took some kind of an instrument and were in the band, part of the band, and we had a wonderful band director at that time who really did a great, great job in bringing them together. He did a lot of performances. Roger Farnsworth was very well known in the area. There were over 200 students at that time in the band, in the music. Then there was of course a much more elaborate music program, with music theory and, where they could take other courses just than taking lessons and so forth. And they were all, had more opportunity in the physical education and the teams that were starting to develop were more widespread. But I think all the boys were-we had three boys-they were all interested in football. 

MR.:  Yes.

MRS.:  They all played football.

MR. :  They all played football. I wonder why?

MRS.:  And baseball… I don’t, they didn’t do too much with basketball.

MR.:  No they didn’t. They didn’t do much with basketball. They did football and…

MRS.:  But that was a growing…There still wasn’t a big program. There might have been two coaches, but there weren’t a lot of coaches available.

MR.:  No… there were two coaches… But, you know the quality of the opposition was stronger, and most schools were getting bigger and of one of our sons won All Western Mass honorable mention for his work in football. That’s when he…

MRS.:  I don’t remember that. 

MR.:  Well, I never forgot it. And interestingly enough, one of our grandsons now is into football, and he’s a big, big boy.

MRS.:  Yeah…

MR.:  He’s going to be very good. Much bigger than I am. Taller and wider. So… but I guess when things get compartmentalized a little bit, and there’s not this cross between everything that goes on. The band was a monstrous activity, and that took an awful lot of students, and athletics was certainly very big, and still is, and that seemed to put them together in that little… even though that they could be in the same classes, but it was just the way things worked out. I don’t think that they are as close as we were to all of our classmates.

MRS.:  No. No, I don’t think that our two oldest daughters ever went back to a Reunion of theirs, in high school, that I am aware of…

MR.:  I’m not aware of it either.

MRS.:  Our third daughter had probably a good-size group of friends, about 10 or 12, and they still, and many of them still live in South Hadley, so, for that reason, they get together quite a bit.

Stephanie:  It’s interesting, so you could say that having more space at the new high school, in an ironic way, it kind of separated people.

MRS.:  Yes, yes.

MR.: Yes.

MRS.:  Yes, it did, it really did.

MR.:  Yes, it did. It had that effect. Because the more space created more activities.

MRS.:  More activities, more choices.

MR.:  The kids that were in the band had to be… in the band, and about all they had time to do was practicing, band work, and their homework. And that got to be a very, very demanding thing. But they went all over the country.

MRS.:  Yes, they did.

MR.:  They marched in the Rose Bowl Parade, and all this sort of stuff…

MRS.:  They went to Ireland.

MR.:  So it was a great experience. They went to Ireland, that’s right. You know, you have to kind of look at it from a long perspective…

MRS.:  Of course that meant fund raisers. (long pause)

Stephanie:  Well, do you guys want to take a walk around? Do you think we should do that?

Leah:  Yeah, we could do that right now.

MR.:  Okay.

Stephanie:  If you want to give us a tour, I don’t know, that’d be great.

MR.:  (all standing up) Show you where all the bad things that we did were…

Stephanie:  I want to see the hole in the floor.

MR.:  Oh that’s all gone.

Stephanie:  It is?

MR.:  Oh, sure, that’s all gone.

Stephanie:  They don’t have a little memorial plaque there?

MR.:  No, they don’t. No, they don’t. No, no.

MRS.:  But this was a wooden floor

MR.:  Oh this was a wooden floor, yes…

MRS.:  …when we were here.

MR.:  Do you want to walk in between?

Leah:  I think this is good. It picks up from far away

Tenzin: So, were there any favorite hang-out spots, where you just hung out with friends?

MR.:  You mean close to the school.

Tenzin:  Yeah, close to the school or inside the school, like in the courtyard, or outside.

MR.:  I can’t think of any particular one place, I really can’t. When it was a nice day outside, like in the Spring, we used to eat our lunch out in front, on the front lawn

MRS.: On the front lawn, yeah.

MR.:  You know, that reminds me of another story, but we won’t tell you about it (laughs). All of these, that was a  town office. That was a town office, and the rest going down here was classrooms, and the Principal’s office was just after the stairway.

MRS.:  I think so… 

MR.:  Or was it?,,,

MRS.:  No, I think this was the Principal’s… 

MR.:  They’ve changed things around…

MRS.:  Yeah, they have changed things around. This might have been the Principal’s office in here…

MR.:  And there were classrooms here on the right, too.

MRS.:  This was the stairway that we normally came up …

Stephanie:  The main entrance.

MRS.:  The main entrance, for us, because that entrance was definitely the Town Hall.

Stephanie:  Okay.

MR.:  Yeah. Yeah. And the other offices were down in the lower elevation. Right here was another entrance, directly ahead of us where this bulletin board is. That was another stairway, and the stairway is still on the outside of the building. You could see it outside.

MRS.:  Outside, it’s bricked in, but. . .

MR.:  So, this was another entrance.

MRS.:  But this was a classroom.

MR.:  Yes, it was.

MRS.:  It was English

MR.:  English.

MRS.:  English classroom.

MR.:  Yeah. I don’t remember anything about the boys’ rooms or girls’, I don’t recall that at all. And this, this was a classroom, too.

MRS.:  Yes. That was…, this was the Math, Algebra…

MR.:  Okay.

MRS.:   Geometry. And I think this was another entrance, and now it’s a… The only place I remember for a women’s room were downstairs, we had, that’s where we had our, we had a coat room, and that’s where our coats went when we came in. We went down there and then we… the bathroom was down there. I don’t remember any other bathroom. There must have been…

MR.:  There must have been…

MRS.:  I have no recollection of it…

MR.:  Right here is where the building at one time ended. Now this part we’re going in is the annex that I mentioned earlier, that they subsequently built and added on.

Stephanie:  Now was this part already here when you both went to school?

MR.:  Yes.

MRS.:  Yes.

MR.:  Yes. That had been built just prior to our coming, I think. This courtyard out here is interesting. At half-time in the football games, this is where the coach brought us, and we couldn’t go into our locker room, because the visiting team had to have a locker room, and we didn’t have the space, so this was our locker room. The visiting team used our locker room. And the coach would sit down and start talking to us, and we’d, course, drink some water and get ready. And I can still hear him. He’d start talking, and he’d build up the crescendo, and toward the end he was screaming! But, that’s the way life was.

Interview with the Mr. and Mrs. Boulais. Done by Stephanie, Tenzin and Leah. Tracks 12(continued)-13

(Track 12, continued from 7:30) (transcribed by Leah Ingeno)

Wayne: And we didn’t have the space, so this was our locker room. (everyone laughs) The visiting team used our locker room, and the coach would sit down and start talking to us, and we’d, of course, you know, drink some water, and get ready. I can still hear him, he would start talking, and he’d build up the crescendo and towards the end he was screaming at us! (everyone laughs) But that’s the way life was. 

Mary: Over here was I think Mr. Foley’s room. 

Wayne: Yeah, Mr. Foley’s room.

Mary: History was in here.

Wayne: Course now it’s all offices, but anyway that’s about the extent of that. Now I think we can get down the stairs and get through here. Have you been down here at all?

Leah: Yeah, I did in an interview before, I wasn’t sure where it led to then, and then I found out. If you keep going, it eventually led to…

Mary: Somewhere down here was also… the home ec. room was down here. 

Wayne: …Things have changed a lot, but I think this is the boy’s, this was the boy’s locker room.  Here, yup. That’s it, this was the locker room. Well, you can’t get in there anymore, it’s storage. I was a member of the school committee here in town for about twelve years, and the superintendent who was on the school committee said that, said you know, your name is still on the locker in there, do you want your locker? (everyone laughs) No. (laughs) 

Stephanie: Now, when was the last time you were in this building? Is this the first time in a while that you guys have been here? 

Wayne: Oh no, no, I’ve been here an awful lot

Stephanie: Well right, ok.

Wayne: but never down here. 

Mary: Usually you go to the selectman’s office, he was on school committee for so long. You know usually when you came here you came for a specific reason, didn’t really wonder through trying out figure out where you were when you were here.

Wayne: But it’s been a long time since you were down here.

Mary: Oh yeah, yes.

Wayne: It’s been a long time since I was down here, in this part. 

Mary: The only part I remember down here as I say was the coat room and the bathroom. 

Wayne: Now this was Tom Moran’s room, wasn’t it? Science. 

Mary: Oh, yes it was. Biology and science.

Wayne: I said I was going to tell you a story about having lunch out there. A bunch if us were sitting on the lawn having lunch, and along came this little kitten, and my friends said, let’s bring him in the school. So we all said, yeah, that’s a good idea! So we came in here, and we put it in the desk drawer of the instructor that we were going to have right after lunch. And we all sat there, you know, waiting for something to happen, we started. And the cat finally decided it was time to make some noise, so he looked around, where is that cat?  He pulled open his drawer… (everyone laughs) But you know, to his credit he didn’t try to ingle out anybody, he didn’t chastise any of us. He took it as a good natured joke, and that’s what it was intended to be, too. 

Wayne: Now, I don’t remember much about this corridor Mary, do you?

Mary: Well, I think we used to come down the stairwell here. And then I think this is where the girl’s coat room was because I remember coming down the stairs. Well a coat room, all it was was hooks on the wall, I mean there was an opening, it was not more than hooks.  

Wayne:  This has changed considerably…

Mary: Somewhere there must have been a room for the home ec. department. They must have had stoves down here somewhere. 

Wayne: You know what? In back of this chamber of commerce thing I remember this long, narrow room here and the boy scouts used to meet in here too. They must have partitioned this off.

(Track 13)

Wayne: This stairway’s exactly the way it was. It hasn’t changed at all.

Mary: changing classes we would come up one side and down the other you know. 

Leah: So did you guys spend a lot of time between classes or did you just go from class to class?

Wayne: We didn’t have much time that I remember.

Mary: I don’t remember that much. I don’t remember exactly how long.

Wayne: This was part of the balcony…. Chemistry was in here. It was either right here, or on the other side of the stairway. I can’t remember which. Now here, going way down to the end. Now it’s been divided for various other groups.

Mary: You know it’s like a double room really.

Wayne: Yeah. 

Mary: We had homeroom here. I’m sure we did not have amen’s and women’s room here. 

Wayne: No, they didn’t.

Mary: And this was another… I think sometimes we had…upperclassmen had English over here.

Wayne: Yes, yes. I think there was English there, and I can’t remember what was directly ahead of us here.

Stephanie: I wonder if it’s hard to recognize the rooms just because they’ve changed so much. 

Mary: Right, yes, they have.

Wayne: Right, they’ve changed so much; it’s hard to put it together, to remember. And maybe some people that you have will remember better than we do. 

Mary: Well that’s true could, yeah. 

Tenzin: Well looking at this space and changes that were made to it, can you think of like alternate uses that they could have made to it, instead of like you know, made it into a town hall?

Wayne: I can think of some changes or some things that they might have done at the time rather than making things as permanent as they’ve made them. If they had had some flexibility in walls or partitions so that it could be changed really because there’s been an awful lot of changes made from the original, changed to the full sized town hall after we got out of here. But everything was made permanent, thinking it was you know, going to stay that way, and it never does. It changes. You know, the departments grow, the departments get smaller, there are ways to make it flexible. Maybe it wasn’t available to them at that time, the technology, perhaps. I think that would have been easy to do.

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewers: Sofia Redford and Milssa Proulx

April 13, 2007

Sofia Redford:  Thank you for coming, let me get this started…. And, begin by asking what year you graduated the high school.

John Croke: Well, I didn’t gradute from this high school, I went three years here.  My class was class of 1945, a hundred years ago.  I didn’t my senior year at Wilberham Academy because, well, I wasn’t doing too well in school so I ended up going over there anyway.

Melissa Proulx: So you grew up in South Hadley?

JC: Oh yes, yup.  I lived here until I was 35 and then I moved to West Springfield for 11 years and then came to Belchertown in 1973.

SR: And is your family based in South Hadley?  Had they lived here for a while?

JC: Oh yea, my mother was born and brought up here and my dad came from Holyoke, right across the river here, so.  In  fact, we can see where he lived right from here.  Actually I’m a native to this area, so.

SR: Umm so, you lived, what part of South Hadley did you live in, because we’re learning that there was the Falls and the Center and…

JC: Center.

SR: You lived in the Center, okay.

JC: [smiling] That’s the other side of the tracks, you know.  We used to call this [the falls] the other side of the tracks.

SR: Was there a  lot of differentiation between the students from the different areas in the high 

school?

JC: Umm no, not really, we had ahh, you know, well, it was a unique type of a town.  It was almost like two towns in one.  What caused that was two different water and fire districts 

[discussion of history of evolution of different water and fire districts]

Ah there was some.  You know, a little bit of rivalry.  But that can happen in any city, between neighborhoods.  But we all went to high school together and we all played football together, so you know.

MP: Yea.  Now, I know that there were people were bussed in from Granby too, right?

JC: Yea, at that time Granby didn’t have their own high school so they paid tuition to send their students here.

SR: So, you said you all played high school, sorry, you all played football in high school. Were you on the football team, was that fun?  Were there a lot of people on the team?

JC: Yea, well we had a regular full sized squad, somewhere around 35, 40 guys, maybe around that many guys but uhh, yea.  We uh, we were small town then actually, we didn’t play the bigger schools we played the smaller one.  Now they in the bigger leagues now.  But uh, kept us out of mischief.

SR: Were the games popular?  Did a lot of people come?

JC: Oh yea.  We used to play across the street, right on those fields.

SR: We spoke with someone earlier today who was, uh, one of the twirlers for some of the basketball games.  Did they have twirlers or cheerleaders?

JC: Well cheerleaders, yea, were there.

MP: She graduated in… [discussion of connection with Beverly Galusha and her husband]

SR: Have you had, you mentioned not having seen Beverly in many years, I mean granted you were in different classes, but has your class had high school reunions of any sort?

JC: Oh yea.  We, fact, we’ve probably had more than anybody.  We’ve had ‘em faithfully every five years.  Fact we had our last one, was our 60^th two, three years ago at Willits-Hallowel.  Used to be, you know, late night affairs but the older we get, their a little earlier now than they used to be.

MP: [laughs] About how many people were there?

JC: Oh gee, I dunno, I can’t really think.  The one thing we’ve done, since our class has shrunk so much, we’ve included members of classes around us, like ‘46, ’44.  So we invite more than just our own class to those reunions.

SR: When you were in high school did you guys get to know the class years ahead of you and below you or was it very much “oh we’re the seniors now and we don’t talk to the juniors”

JC: Oh no, we fraternized, we were friends, we got along pretty good, pretty well, yea.

SR: In classrooms then, would there be students from different years, like would there be freshmen and sophmore in a class together?

JC: Oh yea.  Depending on what class you were taking, you know.  Take for example Algebra, some kids wouldn’t get around to that until their sophmore year and there’d be freshmen taking it, and they’d be in there together.  See these were now, our high school years were the World War II years, 41-45, and uh, one thing about it was uhh, everyone, all the boys that is, were expected to go into service the minute we got out, and most of us did.  I didn’t right away, I didn’t go in until the Korean War, that’s when they got me, but uhh, a lot of them did.  Unfortunately a few of them didn’t come back.  Ahh, but ahh, we had all that, see.  It’s kind of a unique class in that respect, because ahh, we knew what was coming.  But it didn’t affect our lives at all, we were still kids, teenagers, and we still did what kids do.  We enjoyed life in other words, in spite of that.  Fortunately it all ended in 45 and that was the year when our class graduated so not too many of our guys got into it, but quite a few did.  A lot of us went later in the Korean War, 1950 it must have been.

MP: Now, were there people, I know that there were some people who,  were there any people who left high school to go into the service before they graduated?

JC: Oh yea, yea there were a few.  A lot of our senior class signed up early in the Navy, mostly the Navy and uhhh, a lot of them were allowed to go and got their diploma anyway, a few months early.

MP: I remember Beverly was telling us, because she was a couple years after you, that there were a lot of people who came back to finish their diploma afterwards.

JC: Oh yes, a lot of them came back afterwards.  A lot of the dropouts, who just didn’t get their diplomas, some of them sophmores, juniors, depending on their age and all, a lot of them came back and got diplomas.  Many of them went on to college and did very well for themselves.  Probably wouldn’t have if it had not been for the GI Bill.  There you go.  I had a unique situation my own.  I wanted my parents to let me drop out and join the Navy, lie about my age, I was only 15 at the time.  Of course they wouldn’t hear of that, no, when you’re old enough and you graduate, then you can go, you know.  Well, that’s the reason I flunked out, I figured if I…  Shot myself in the foot actually, because what I did was I allowed myself to flunk out figuring they’d have to let me join the Navy and that’s how I ended up in Wilberham Academy.

SR: That backfired a little bit.

JC: Well it sure did, blew up in my face.  I should have known better but I was just a kid.

SR: Because I was going to ask how having the war going on during your time in high school affected it, but you say that everyone pretty much just continued doing high school things and being…

JC: Yea, it didn’t really change anybodies’ attitude, nobody ran off to Canada or anything.  In fact, everyone was very anxious in those days to go, patriotism ran high.  A lot of kids were in the same situation that I was, they wanted to drop out and join up, you know, and a few of them did.

SR: So umm, to sort of go back to doing the high school things that you guys continued to do, did you guys have dances and stuff?

JC: Oh yes, proms, dances.  Everything went on as usual, in spite of the war, nothing was really held up.

MP:  Were you involved in anything other than football?  I know we were looking at the yearbook, for such a small class there were so many clubs and so many different activities and stuff.

JC: Oh yea, no I didn’t get involved in activities.  I was in the band, I played a drum in the band for about three years, you know, so, that was..

MP: Now, because it was down here, the school was down in the Falls here, was it harder for you to get back and forth to do those activities?

JC: Uh, no, no.  They had uh, for those of us who did football they gave us bus tickets.  What’s now the PVTA used to be the Holyoke Street Railway buses would go right up into South Hadley Center, and even into Amherst, you know.  So they’d just give us tickets, the uh, bus company would give ‘em punched so we’d just get right on the bus and that’s how we got back and forth.  Course in the morning we had regular school buses too and that’s how they’d get us in and out of here.

SR: So, how would you classify your overall high school experience?  Was it something that you enjoyed or, you mentioned that you just wanted to get out and join the Navy.

JC: Well, a combination of both.  Of course I enjoyed, everybody when you’re a teenager you should enjoy being a teenager, I dunno if they do so much today.  Actually, I think the war had some affect on a lot of us, took away our ability to concentrate in school, we had the war on our mind, we wanted to get out there and see what we could do, you know.  We were kids, we didn’t know what was out there, it wouldn’t have been so, you know, some of them found out it wasn’t so, you know, so glamorous to go to war, you know, but we were all anxious to go.

MP:  Now, as far as classes go and things like that, some people have talked about how they were, the way that your classes were set up, what kind of classes you took, that you could like, different tracks, like you could be on a  college school track, or there was just a, uhh, a

SR: There was a general track

MP: Or a business track.

JC: Oh, you mean, the different courses.  We had three.  There was college course, uuh, commercial course and general course.  And general course, well that was people who didn’t know what they wanted, so you know.  I started out with a college course and I didn’t do that well, as I told you already, but uhh, I did go two years to college.

MP: Oh, where did you go?

JC: I went to Emerson College, up in Boston. 

[discussion of shared connections to Emerson and changes to the school]

SR: So you did go on to two years of college then.  Did a lot of people in your class?  I mean, I guess since the war was over, did a lot of people go on to college?

JC: Oh yes, a lot of them did.  I think those who, uhh, intended to in the first place did, though some of them were interrupted by the war, but eventually ahh… Put it this way, a lot more went to college after the war than did before the war because they had the GI Bill and the means to go there, which a lot didn’t during the Depression years.

SR: Umm, to talk a little bit about the, umm, space of the high school, we understand that the Town Hall actually used to be in the the the, the Town Hall used to be part of this, has always been a part of this building.

JC: Oh yes, we’re sitting in the Town Hall right now, what was the Town Hall.  Yea, this half of the building, this door here  over was the Town Hall and the other door was the high school and down to the annex.

MP/SR: Oh really.

SR: Oh, so that explains the two entrances, that one was for the Town hall. Oh okay.

JC: I think now, I was in here once, oh, about 10, 15 years ago, I was in here on a traffic ticket, they were holding a courtroom in one of our classrooms upstairs and I had to come in for that.  And that’s the only time I’ve been in this building since then but uhh, every one of the old classrooms, I looked around the place that day, are converted into offices now.

MP: Offices, yea.  I know that some people have said that they’ve blocked off some doorways and changed some rooms around and stuff.  So down here was gym and that kind of stuff….?

JC: Uhh, basketball, and also had physical education classes up  in what they called the gym but was actually the Town Hall.

SR: Did you have a favorite class, umm, in high school?  Or a favorite teacher that you always liked best?

JC: Well, in a way, yea.  My favorite subject was United States History and its one of the few that I did well in [chuckles] and uhhh, are teacher there was a big moose of a guy name of Jerry Foley.  He was the kind of a guy you just looked at him and you had respect.  You didn’t cross his path, you worked with him not against him, you know, so.  What he did, he got me through that class and I, I developed, well, to this day I still read a lot of history books and all that.

SR: Yea, I mean, juding by your interest and the book that you wrote, you wrote a book on South Hadley [discussion of book he wrote, which is memories he recorded for his family but has found some circulation through the historical society].  Umm, actually, it was funny, Beverly mentioned Mr. Foley too as someone that she had worked part time for, as a student err, 

MP: Just helping

SR: Yea, like helping out with history research projects.  Were students doing things like that?  In addition, maybe instead of clubs working in certain jobs in the high school or things of that sort?

JC: You mean were students doing that sort of thing?

SR: Yea, were they employed by teachers or the school?

JC: Not that I really know of, no, I don’t really know of anything like that.  Actually, during the war years lot of the teachers themselves were holding part time jobs.  Like Foley was a security guard over at the old Worthington Pump Corporation.  After school wentover there and put on a security guard uniform and that’s what he would, you know, he was a big guy.

MP: Did you work at all during high school?

JC: Did I?  Yea, I worked for a little while in the Center, right about where the Odessey is today there was an old red front A&P store.  In fact, if you ever looked at my book there’s a picture of it. I worked in there, I used to work in there after school, you know, grocery clerk.  It was 40 cents an hour.

MP: [laughs] Wow.

SR: Did a lot of students work outside of then as well, did they have a…

JC: Oh yea.  There was plenty of employment in thos days, you know, because of the war, and so there was a shortage of manpower.  Almost every kid had an afterschool job, you know, so.  Course in my earlier years I was brought up on a farm, and I had plenty of work to do there afterschool.  So it was.

SR: You mentioned Mr. Foley as someone you looked at and immediately had respect for.  We’re there any teachers that students didn’t like, that were the known not good teachers?  Or was it sort of generaly uhhh, a pretty fine atmosphere, I can’t think of the word.

JC: Well actually, there were the teachers that we would, we would imitate behind their back or mock or things like that but we had respect and, uhh, for the most part I think they were all pretty popular.  We had a couple of old biddies, old maids that taught us, oh geez, they were, but, what the heck.  You know.  In those days you just respected your elders, that’s all.  No matter what you thought of them personally you had to respect, that’s the way it was.

MP: One thing that I thought was interesting, in talking to our other interview, because it was a small school and a small community and everything that you knew a lot more about your teachers personally, or had a lot more interaction with say the principal of your school, you know, just, did you have a lot of interaction with the teachers or the principal?

JC: We, we knew them, I mean that was a formal barrier there, we weren’t buddies or anyof that.  But they were, they were all, I mean everybody knew them cuz they lived right here in town, most of them.  A few of them came from Holyoke, those we didn’t know that well, but as far as you.  But, our vice principal who was later principal, Dan Conners, he’s long gone now, but we knew him very well, you know.  And he’s another one, he worked part time in the highway department, in the summertime (MP: Really?  Oh my goodness.) Sure, that’s what people had to do in those days to make a living, during the Depression years, you know.  But we knew him pretty well, we knew Foley pretty well, we knew, well there was Bill Bosworth but he was actually from Holyoke but we knew him pretty well.  For the most part, yea.  The ones that lived in town we had a pretty good handle on.

SR: Yea, yea.  Umm, now sorry, you may have answered this earlier but I’m, I am just blanking out for a moment here.  Forgive, I have a cold so I’m kind of working through the ahh (JC: Oh that’s all right, I got one too, so don’t worry about) yea, umm.  We asked about the different towns and you had said that there wasn’t really a lot of difference between students, they sort of all came together regardless of where they were from?

JC: Yea, yea, usually.  Some times in the very beginning there were a few clashes here and there but ahh, for the most part we were a pretty good, good bunch of kids from all over town, and we got along good, we got along well.  And uhh, I can remember ahh, going back into the elementary school, seventh and eighth grade where I went to school in the Center, you know the big building on Hadley Street?  Well, that’s where I went to grammar school and, uhh, seventh and eighth grade they used to send kinds in the Plains school, up here in the Granby, they only six grades there so they’d send ‘em up to our school for the seventh and eighth grades.  And there was more clashes there than anywhere else.  A bunch came over (MP: Well yea, when you’re first..) you know, boy there was always something going on.  You know, in those days they didn’t try and stop anything, if two kids had at it they had at it, got it out of their system, and you didn’t have to worry about one of ‘em coming back two days later with a gun and blowing up the classroom or something, it was out of their system.  And oftentimes they’d end up as friends, you know?  And it was over with.  And that’s the way it was, very simple.  You know.  Let nature take it’s course.

SR: Umm, so, so students from Granby, did they come in on a separate separate bus?

JC: Yes they did, yea, they had their own bus, as I recall, I don’t know if it was one of our buses… But they were bussed in, anyway,  from Granby.

SR: And did that affect their ability at all to participate in after school activities or teams or anything of that sort?

JC: Oh no, no.  They were in on everything here.  A lot of them played football, basketball, you know.  Some of our best athletes came from Granby, matter of fact.

MP: Oh really

SR:  Did everyone come to sports games, you know, to basketball games and football games and stuff?  Were those popular occassions for people? 

JC: Oh yea.  They had, uh, they had, basketball they played here in the Town Hall was their home court.  Two nights, it was Tuesdays and Friday nights were basketball games, and that was always a sell out here, you know.  

MP: So everyone from all over the town would come?  Or was it mostly just the high school kids?

JC: Uhhh, no no, a lot of  the parents, a lot of the older people would come just for the fun of watching the games.  And after a while they developed some pretty good teams here.  We became small school champion for Western Massachusetts, where they, the playoffs were up at the University at that time.  Not, Hicks Curry, I guess as what they call it, cage now or another they had then.  But they used to have a huge tournament, a high school tournament up there, the small schools every year in March and South Hadley usually participated in that.  And they won it a few times (MP: That’s exciting).  We competed.  I didn’t play basketball but we competed.

SR: Did the band ever play for basketball games or anything?

JC: Not for basketball, there wouldn’t have been enough room for ‘em.  But they did play at football games.

SR: Okay.  And uh, Beverly mentioned parades too. (JC: Oh yea)  So did you guys play in the parades as well?

JC: Yup, oh yea.  Well there was Memorial Day of course, that was always an occasion here.  The band would march along with other units, VMW and so forth.  And uh, they started up by the old Crew Street school here and they’d march down to the villiage cemetary which is just about, you can see it from here almost.  Then we’d go to the Center, we’d go to the Evergreen Cemetery and we’d have ceremonies there.  Then on the common, where the statue was, there’s always, we’d always wind up there, and we’d have a ceremony there. 

[brief discussion of changes to commons and road] 

SR: So have things changed a lot around town in the years that you’ve lived here?

JC: Have they, oohh.  Boy I’ll tell you, it’s ah, if you could see Disneyworld up there, what I call the villiage commons 

[Discussion of changes to the Villiage Commons and what used to be there]

MP:  Now, being high school students, did you guys go to the College Inn?

JC: Oh yea.  We used to go to the College Inn.  We used to raise a little hell in there and get kicked out every now’n again.  Fellow name of Howard Keys owned it back in those days, you know, and what he really wanted was the college, he didn’t want us local yokels in there.  He’d let us in, he’d tolerate us, when we got too rambunctious out we’d go.

SR: So that must have been interesting then.  Where did people hang out, in school or afterschool?  Because there must have been spots where everyone congregated.

JC: Oh yea.  Well in in the Falls of course you had, uhh, over on Barboa Street you had a place called Shiftners, typical teenage jupe joint.  Up in the Center you, we had the pool room, we had all kinds, you know, we had the drugstore, we always hung around there.  But, there wasn’t too much hanging around, per se, because, uh, most of us had things to do. You know, a lot of us had to work, things like that.  But there was always the poolroom, we were all good pool players. It’s been a long time, you know?

MP: One thing I was interestd in is umm, some people had said when you were in school, that, you know like walking through the hallways and stuff you’d be with your friends but you weren’t allowed to talk, or something like that.  Is that, were things real strict like that?

JC: Well, in the Center School up on Hadley Street, it was pretty much that way, you’d go one class, well, you didn’t change class that often, but when you did we’d march in a quiet little line.  But here in high school we, we’d raise all kind of hell in the hallway inbetween classes. (MP: [chuckles] Really?) But uhh, they weren’t as strict about it.  What they wanted u p there was just to get us into the next class and get going, you know, no fooling around.  

SR: Were uh, did students ever sneak out of class or? (JC: Excuse me?) Did students ever sneak out of class, or skip class?

JC: Not very often, no, we didn’t really have that problem, there wasn’t much truancy at all in those days.  We had uhh, [chuckles] we had an old Irishman, his name was Jim Peters in the police department here.  The police department in those days was about four men and the chief or three man or something, I dunno.  But he was also the truant officer.  He, every now and then some kid would play hooky and he’d go and round ‘em up. And he’d, he had a big Irish brogue and he’d say, he’d take ‘em up to the drugstore and buy ‘em an ice cream cone or something and he’d say, “Now the next time you’ll have me wrath upon ya.” [laughter] And, it worked, he’d take the kid back to school after buying ‘em an ice cream cone or something.  That’s the way things were in those days.  Nothing was taken too seriously, you know.  

SR: Well, do you have any stories that you’v really wanted to tell, or questions that you were really hoping that we would ask you, because we have sort of our questions but we really want to make sure that, you know, anything that you were really hoping to get to say, or had just remembered or anything of that sort.

JC: Well, I, I really, uhh, excuse me [blows nose].  Nothing like having a cold.

SR: Ahh, I hear ya on that one.

JC:  Not really, I dunno, I mean I, things that I like to talk about or wanted to talk about pretty much in my book.  It’s out there and anyone who wants to see it, you know, it’s out there. But I can’t really think of anything.  If there’s any other questions you got I’ll be happy to answer them but you know, I really, I’m not much at blowing my own horn.

SR: Well, you’ve spoken mostly of positive things about high school, umm.  Were there any negatives, were there, were there, you know…

JC: Well, for a kid in school it’s all negative, you know.

SR: Yea, it’s true, it true.

JC: You know, I’m looking back in retrospect here and it really, no, I couldn’t say anything too bad about any part of my, any phase of my school days, you know.  That was back in a lot of heap of memories here, although back then I had a lot of complaints, cramming about things.  You didn’t go run home and tell your mother in those days either cuz you knew who’s side she was gonna be on, and it wasn’t gonna be on your side.

MP: Now, umm, did you have brothers and sisters?

JC: Yea, I had, uhh, two sisters.  In fact, one of them has been in this program here, yea.  And uh, I got a younger brother, so.

MP: Now, were they real close in age to you, were they in the school at the same time as you?

JC: Uhh, well, my older sister Carol, she was about, about 4 years older than I am, we were in grammar school together for a few years.  My younger sister who was uhhh, she’s part of the South Hadley Historical Society too, her name is Judy, she is, she’s about 7 years younger than me.  We’re kinda spread apart.  And I got a brother who’s ten years younger than me, so, you know we weren’t that close.  Well, we were close as a family, but I mean, we never hung around with each other because we were in different age brackets, you know, but uhh.  In fact, both my sisters went to Mount Holyoke.  

MP: That’s one thing that’s really been, is interesting about how many people from the high school did get to go to Mount Holyoke because of the association and …

JC: Well a lot of, in those days, I don’t know if it still applies today or not, but, they used to take so many from the town, free of tuition, provided their grades were up there.

MP: Yea, I think that they still do that program, or something similar to it.

JC: I know we had a lot of people with daughters who would suddenly come from Holyoke, they’d move over here five years before college age, but that uh, you know, part of the deal.

MP: There’s actually ummm, one or two people in our class who grew up in South Hadley and went to South Hadley High School and are now at Mount Holyoke.  And they’ve said that it’s been pretty interesting talking to people that went here for high school and seeing all the similarities and traditions.

JC: Yea, I can imagine.  When I look at, you know, I read about incidents in the paper that happened in the high school up there, geez, I dunno.  I could never imagine the police being called for any incidence happening here.  But there always getting called in for some incident happening up there.  But I think they’re make a bigger deal out of things than it should be, I think they should handel more of the problems themselves, you know.  They just, they have to slap them down a little bit, I mean, course you can’t do that anymore but..

MP:  We’ve heard stories of things like that happening here though, back in…  (JC: Oh yea, yea) Somehting about an English teacher… 

[example of Ms. Driscoll making students speak from the closet, brief discussion of Ruth and Mike Thornton]

JC: But you know, that’s how we respected, I mean, you know, guys like I told you about Mr. Foley, well boy, I mean, he’d just as soon clap you one as look at you.  We, we had one teacher, Bill Bosworth, he lived in Holyoke, and uh, he wasn’t a very big guy but I seen him take a kid right by the stack and swivel here and put ‘em up against the blackboard and say “Now,” you know.  Boy the kid would calm right down, you know, that was, that was not unusual in those days.  No body got hurt or permanently injured or anything but a good slap side of the head or something, but you know, or something.  Other than that you learned to respect these guys, you know.

MP: Yea, it was a very different approach to respect towards people.

JC: Absolutely.  You know today, kid’s’d take a swing at a teacher.  We would never think of a thing like that, you know.

SR: How did that work with female teachers?  You know, cuz a female teacher I wouldn’t imagine picking a kid up and pining him against a blackboard.

JC: No, they wouldn’t.  There’s another thing, see, kids in those days, you respected women, whether you liked ‘em or not you respected them, you know, and, no kid woul ever drive a woman teacher to that extreme, you know.  And I, I can, I couldn’t imagine that ever happening where the woman teacehrs were concerned.  Course in the elementary school you know, it was all women teachers.  When we were kids then they would slap us around, you know [chuckles] and they did, so.

MP: But soo, pretty much the only male teachers were in the high school?

JC: Yea, yea it was.  There was no, uhh, no male teachers in any of the elementary schools in those days, no.  They were all here.  But uh, things, you know, like, course kids were taught at home too that you don’t, you know, disrespect your elders like that.  We came here, whether we liked ‘em or not was one thing but we respected ‘em, we did respected them, so.

SR: Do you have any children that have gone to the, you mentioned that you read the newspaper about the new high school, have any of your children or grandchildren gone uhh 

[No, all went to West Springfield or Belchertown and four of the five still live in the area.  Eleven granchildren and four great-granchildren “so you go from a family to a clan to a tribe.”  Discussion of son’s annual trip to the Grand Canyon.  Discussion of grandson in Iraq, the only one since him to enter the service, though a younger one had just entered basic training.  The older one has earned a Bronze Star.]   

SR: Well that’s all the questions that (MP: That I can think of.) yea, that I have.

JC: That about wrap it up? 

SR: Yea, this has been great, thank you.  

JC: Well, I hope you enjoyed it, I hope I was some help to you.

SR: Oh no, absolutely

MP:  It’s a lot of information to help us out with our project. 

[Discussion of what’s going to be done with the articles and the connection to the Historical Society.  Discussion of John and how he avoids computers.  He was production manager at a manufacturing center near by, before retiring].

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Heather van Werkhooven

April 14, 2007

Heather van Werkhooven: So, did you grow up in South Hadley?

John Zebryk: Oh, yeah. Born and brought up here. It, ah, yes. 

Some of the best years of my life. And I am delighted to have the opportunity of participating in this program. I think that this high school building is a living memorial and it provides a lot of us, and I think future generations, with some opportunity of insight as to what went on in the years that I grew up, which I think were rather unique. Should I go on, I gotta couple of observations that I would…

Heather van Werkhooven: Go on, go on.

John Zebryk: I think that historically, the period of time just before the new high school was built is unique, and it’s part of what Tom Brokaw  calls the greatest generation and we were apart of that. In our case, in these few classes which were the last few in this building we were, most of us brought up in the Depression era, and that was a unique set of economic conditions that we lived through. When I was about in the sixth grade, ah, World War Two started. And we had rationing and all the events associated with World War Two living and the State Guard, of which I was a member. And then when I was a sophomore, World War Two ended. And the last two years of our high school we had veterans coming back and we had the opportunity of living first hand with some of their experiences in our lives and then of course we graduated and became part with others in our general age group of what turned out to be the baby boomer generation. 

But that was…two bookends – the beginning of the Depression and the end of World War Two is the period that we lived through in this building and it has lots of stories that can be told. 

Heather van Werkhooven: Would you like to tell me about your family – did you have brothers or sisters? Did you live right near the high school… growing up?

John Zebryk: Yes, as a matter of fact, very near. I was thinking about preparing to come down and talk to you. I don’t think I ever had lunch in the cafeteria in the high school. I knew where it was and a lot of my friends did, but I was able to walk – across Bridge Street through the empty lots across a little brook with a wooden plank bridge to my house and I had lunch at home most of the time growing up. 

South Hadley, in my personal judgment, is a town-village and the village concept we hear about was certainly at play here. There was a community spirit and a family relationship that existed in high school and the teachers, that was quite unique. I don’t know if it can be found as readily as it used to be. The Falls where I lived, which is quite near by, this town was pretty much a working class community. And in my case, as with many others, my parents were first generation immigrants. As first generation immigrants, and just around this Depression… well first they had two obstacles to overcome –  the immigration status and then education, but they both came from large families and as a result neither my mother or father graduated from high school. 

But they, never the less, as many others like me like people at that time, what they wanted for me was the best they could provide and were very supportive about me getting as good an education as I possibly could. Which began at high school, at minimum, as far as they were concerned. However, unfortunately, they weren’t able to advise me as well as I wish they might have sometimes. For example, when we were thinking about coming into high school from grammar school, we went to the New Carew Street School; I had to make a decision. This was a big life affecting decision – what kind of course I take in high school. Well, my parents were there and they wanted me…do whatever you think is best. But they couldn’t guide me beyond that. Well, I knew I wanted to get and job somewhere and my father worked in the mills and he worked for the town digging ditches, and I remember… one of the clearest memories I have is that he and a co-worker, that worked for the town water department were digging a ditch to repair something that was broken and he was all sweaty and dirty and the both of them looked up at me and said “John, if there’s one thing you gotta remember, don’t end up doing what we’re doing.” My father and his co-worker… “Make sure you get whatever education you can so you wouldn’t have to put up with what we’re doing” and that was one of the biggest lessons that he provided…to me. So, my decision when I came to high school was very difficult. I chose a commercial course ‘cause that sounded like something that would keep me from digging ditches and I might be able to work in an office and I might be able to acquire some of those kinds of skills.

Heather van Werkhooven: What were the…what were the different tracks you had to choose from? 

John Zebryk: Well, there was a commercial course, there was a college prep, and I think general. I think those were the only three high school offered at that time. So I had to make this decision. So I kinda made it on my own with their full support, but it was a tough decision. Then when I got to high school, and the opportunity of finding what it was all about I was fairly content in the course selection I had made, but again, and I am very proud of the fact that the teachers that I was exposed to took a personal interest in people like me and these teachers, I will mention a few by name in a minute, after my freshmen year said “John, maybe you should be thinking about college.” And without going through all of that, they encouraged me to do so and dangled before me the opportunity of advanced education and maybe a scholarship of some kind and suggested that I change my course. So that, at the beginning of my sophomore year I switched to a college prep course because of the good guidance that was made available to me through the unusual people that I had the opportunity of being directed by at the time. I had to double up on some courses, I ended up taking solid geometry and a correspondence course to get the credit to catch up to get my full allotment. Anyway, it worked, and it was an excellent example of the community spirit and camaraderie in this village environment that I was so pleased to have grown up in that was able to assist me in a major direction in my personal life.

Heather van Werkhooven: Do you feel that…it sounds like you feel that everybody within the classes, they were very close. Did everyone know each other fairly well, were there any kinds of divisions – certain groups hung out with certain groups…

John Zebryk: I think there was some of the, a little of the cliquishness that exists in every group, but no. Generally I didn’t feel a big thing. I was active in sports. OK, so I kind of gravitated to people who were of like interest. But never felt to the exclusion of others – never, never once. Have coming from the Falls here, we, in high school got to meet people from Woodlawn and the Center, which in our insular lives up through grammar school, we didn’t, so our world expanded. And Granby. The town of Granby at the time was sending their pupils to South Hadley High School. I found it very stimulating to meet this larger divergence of people. But, and our class was small, with maybe eighty-five, as I recall. You knew everybody by name and you encountered them in the halls and the other classes around us. 

There is an anecdote that I want to get into this conversation that illustrates the point I am trying to make about the family spirit that I felt at this particular time. My uncle used to talk about my growing up years. We lived right on School Street, which is right over here, and they had a car, and he says that in those days we parked the car on the street in front of somebody’s driveway and of somebody had to go out, get out, the practice was to leave the keys in the car (laughing) and if the car was in somebody’s way they would move it. Now, can you imagine that in this day and age? Wow.

As a result of that kind of growing up, my wife gets after me; I don’t like to lock doors. I feel inhibited when I’m locking the door.

So that was some of my story and some of the feelings I have in connection with it.

Heather van Werkhooven: So do you think that the particular time period really affected the camaraderie…that you felt?

John Zebryk: Oh, absolutely. You know…and again the village concept…we were a village. Everybody kinda, pretty much looked after one another and it was the Depression era at the beginning. But we didn’t feel poor, because everybody else was in the same… pretty much everybody else, was in the same circumstance and conducted our lives accordingly. If I stepped out of line somebody down the street would tell my mother about it and it was nice feeling. In fact, so much so, that when I did go to college, I went to Williams College from South Hadley, and I felt this difference. I missed what you just asked me about – this camaraderie, this family spirit. And certainly when I went into the army later on, which is nonexistent, there was a South Hadley culture, if you will, that was very comforting to be a part of, whatever your station. 

Heather van Werkhooven: That must have been…a pretty amazing experience. Do you remember hearing about the end of World War Two? Do you remember where you were when you heard that?

John Zebryk: Oh, absolutely. The excitement of the end of an era. Up until then and this as a sophomore in high school – gas rationing, food rationing…may I inject an anecdote that I think is telling?

Because of this…we won the small high school basketball tournament in Amherst in my sophomore year. This is, oh, a big event, as a sports oriented guy. But the K&M Market, which is right on the corner down here, they wanted to do something for the team so they gave each one of us a steak. A steak! I think it was porterhouse, I don’t know, but it was a quality cut. Up until that time, that was the first time I had such a steak. The only kind of meat that I had known up until that time, as a sophomore in high school, was top brown, you know! An occasional top brown was the cut of meat that we could afford and didn’t think too much of it until I got this. What a discovery! – That such food was available. 

Heather van Werkhooven: I don’t know anything about the food rationing. How did…how did they oversee food rationing?

John Zebryk: Well, they had coupons and you were allotted so many coupons per family, depending upon the size of the family, and you could purchase coffee and meats and gasoline and tires –  all these things. 

And gas at this time contributed to the camaraderie, the familial spirit that existed. Because people were sharing. I you didn’t use all of your gasoline coupons and the neighbor or somebody would offer them to you and you could get by. Victory Gardens, a lot of people had Victory Gardens. They were raising vegetables, and that’s where I used to cut through to get to my house. There were Victory Gardens behind the palace block, here. I used to wander down there. As I began my comments, I think this was a very unusual period in our town history, in national history, that we lived through. 

Did I …I don’t know if I answered your question. I got myself off…

Heather van Werkhooven: I had asked if you remembered where you were or what had happened when you heard about the end of World War Two.

John Zebryk: Well, complete …complete joy.  It was kind of two stages – the more dramatic, at least in my case, was at the beginning of the war. I remember I went to the movies at the Holyoke Theater with my father and in the afternoon we came out that Sunday. In a Holyoke at the time boys were selling newspapers at the time “Extra, Extra, read all about it”, that kind of stuff. War! Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor. That was the mind-blowing experience. The end of the war, which you asked about, was more tapering off and was foreseen somewhat. But the beginning, as I described it in my memory, I remember the next day – I used to walk a dog, Doctor Leland, who brought me into this world, was in retirement and he had a little dog and during my lunch period, I was in grammar school at the time I used to walk the dog by Conti and Vito’s, and I remember listening to Roosevelt describe what was going on in his Fear Speech and I will never forget those memories which…are very unique. 

Heather van Werkhooven: So after high school you went to Williams College…and what did you study?

John Zebryk: Well…maybe we can talk about some of the people in high school who influenced my life. During high school, I was fortunate that John Bristol, who taught Physics and Math, who was a civil engineer, a professional civil engineer and did surveying part-time during the summers while he was teaching here in the high school. I got to know him a little bit and he offered me the opportunity of working with him. Because of his personality and his interest in me he thought that I ….he was steering me down the road to become an engineer, as he was. And he was a role model for me and I wanted to be like him. In my course selection I selected courses in that general direction and was offered a scholarship to Williams, which I will talk about in a minute. They had a five year program. Three years at Williams and two years at MIT and you get two degrees, and I said oh, this is a deal. That’s what I thought I wanted, but, well just to finish off that thought, when I got to Williams and got involved in some of the real engineering subject matter, atomic physics and organic chemistry and some of that stuff, I found I wasn’t quite as enthused as I once was. After reconsidering, in my sophomore year again I seem to have that part of my pattern, I switched majors and became an economics major. I had an interest in this always and more than that I could see a direction this might point me in, in so far as gainful employment. You know, art or some other discipline I might have had to think about, but this might qualify me to get a real job when I get out, so I switched to economics. It was a good decision. And I got some good advice there too, at the time. I never regretted it. The other person…Dan Connors was amazing. Dan Connors was the assistant principal when I was coming through the high school and he was…he coached football and civics, that was one of his subjects. He probably more than any one individual was instrumental in getting me thinking about college. He knew some of my family and relatives. It’s what was happening in this building, the people took an interest then. He used to confer with me, or I with him and he was the primary person who got me thinking about college. I am a big guy, as you can see, and football was my natural sport. OK, and I played football in high school, was co-captain of the team and all that. He said, with your skills and your academic potential, he said I might be able to get you into either Amherst or Williams. And Williams, because he had somebody connected there that he thought, he was fairly confident that he could get me a scholarship. Because, again, my parents, which I described their circumstances, could not afford to have me go to a school like that, but with a scholarship it would be possible. And he pointed that out and I am forever grateful. I regret to this day that I, in later years, did not tell him this enough. How influential in my life, he was. I used to see him occasionally, when I was in college and we used to the paper at the same place and he kept his eye on me throughout my college career but I did not do enough to really make him understand how appreciative I was. I still regret some of that. I think he knew what he had done for me, but I felt incomplete. He got me, advised me to change my course from a commercial course to college prep, helped me organize – he was the assistant principal – according to what subjects I needed to catch up on. And dangled before the possibility that if I did well in all these things I could have this and satisfy what I will describe as my father and mothers desire that I not do what my father did. So here is an individual that I cannot speak highly enough of. OK?

Heather van Werkhooven: Was going to college kind of unusual? 

John Zebryk: Oh yes. Oh yes. It was unusual, again, because most of Depression people and working class blue collar families did not have the opportunity. And it did not happen as frequently as it does now. So yea, it was a major event in my family’s experience. Again, I’m a second generation immigrant. I loved my parents and they loved me and wanted the best for me, but they just couldn’t advise me in some of these areas, and what college is like, and what do you do when you get there. People, like the faculty here at South Hadley High School, they helped me. Dan Connors being number one. John Bristol, with math and I told you a little about him already, about how he helped mold me. And Ms. Driscoll, who taught English. Anne Driscoll. We used to call her “Annie the Dragon”. Until we learned better a little bit later in life. English was not my strongest suit. It was grammatical English that was taught in grammar school, but she had to introduce us to the literature, and made it interesting.  I, in my freshmen year, my grade was a C, whatever it was she said we gotta get that up. So, she used to tutor me and took her personal time and guided me through and it was a great experience as well. I got to know her, I got to know literature more intimately then I might otherwise have then and we got to be friends. I maintained a relationship – a casual one – with her and we always invited her to our reunions, at the time. One of the saddest experiences, unfortunately, she died in a fire. She and a large number of her family she was visiting. I really felt, when that occurred, as a loss, a personal loss because I had, as I am describing other members of the faculty, she was one who I considered a friend, it was more than a former teacher. You know, “Annie the Dragon” it now becomes a term of endearment to me and my colleagues who had similar experiences with her and the patience that she displayed in dealing with us and the guidance she provided. She is a Smith College gal, by the way. 

Heather van Werkhooven: So, it sounds like you still keep in touch with a lot of people…in the area?

John Zebryk: Not anymore. I used to, but as I guess happens. We all kind of have gone our separate ways, in many respects, and have acquired lives and families that’s made it kind of difficult. I have a few friends and unfortunately their numbers are diminishing as we age. That’s why I mention I had lunch with Mike Nardy and Budgey Brainerd yesterday, both of whom are South Hadley graduates. Budgey was senior when we were freshmen and Mike was a classmate of mine. We talk about the joy and reminisce about people that we encountered and enjoyed so much, having spent part of our lives with. 

Heather van Werkhooven: I was going to ask if you had class reunions?

John Zebryk: Yea. I was class president for two years. I think I attended most of them. This is our last class, our fiftieth reunion, or this is a picture of our last class reunion. I mentioned John Bristol? He was in his eighties, I believe, when this picture was taken. He lived in Florida – I used to visit him in Florida, too…

May I inject another anecdote?

And he was the guy I worked for in the surveying operation. He told me, for the first time I learned this…in 1997, something I never knew. He and Coach Landers, who was another important man in my life here.

 I more naturally leaned to football, but I…basketball I learned about, I’ll tell you a little bit about that in a minute, and I fell in love with basketball. But I was not the most graceful, I guess. I went out for the basketball team and I was cut. I was devastated as a freshmen. Oh, this is so what I want to do and Coach Landers, another remarkable man, seemed to think there might be something there. He knew of my football activities and my work ethic, I guess or some such thing. Anyway, he said “I am going to give him a try” and he talked to John about it, Bristol, and they had a wager. John told the coach “I don’t think they will ever make him into a basketball player.” I don’t know what the wager was, a small amount. But I never knew this existed. But the coach took me on and worked with me and I became part of the team, and I think a contributing part of the team, and we did pretty well in the next few years. But it was the kind of example again, where somebody sees something in you and think you have potential and they have the professionalism to say “well, maybe we can do something with them.” 

Let me continue with basketball. When I came into high school, I had never seen a basket or a basketball. I didn’t know the game. I didn’t know what one basket counted for. I got in here and through gym, got to know the game and my friends were playing with it and I told you as we walked in – it got so, that year, it was closed. There were no facilities as there are in most schools now. We used to sneak in the backdoor. We found a way of opening the door, on the weekends, and we would play basketball here. I mean, it was illegal but we didn’t do anybody any harm and I think some of the powers that be might have even known about it and winked, knowing that we weren’t harming anything and just attempting to utilize the facility. It was the kind of South Hadley experience that was wonderful. So, anyway I got to playing basketball and got a sports thing. We did pretty well in basketball and Coach Landers who, if I can dwell on him a little bit. Tommy Landers. We helped move him from Belchertown to South Hadley when he came here my freshmen year and got to know his wife and his children. He was one of the nicest guys I’ve ever known. He got me going into basketball, and one of the questions you indicated was what was on of my greatest experiences or memories. Having been devastated being cut the first year at basketball, and then having been invited back, and at that time I got a jacket. For a whole year the only thing I wanted was an orange and black basketball jacket that I could wear as my friends were wearing. I think… I don’t know if anybody didn’t want it…this was the last one available. As I told you Coach brought me back, I think he was beyond his limit at the time. But I got that jacket and that was one of my proudest moments. It was kind of ratty and it was sewn over in a number of places, but it was mine and I became a part of this activity that I so much wanted to be a part of. It was a wonderful experience.

We had football sweaters and the basketball team had orange and black jackets with “SH” on it, you know…the jocks. I was really part of the team. As a matter of fact I was more proud of that than whatever I did in football. This game is what I loved so much. Football was work. There was the linemen and out there bumping heads and pushing people around and all that. Basketball, I had the ball and I had the opportunity of playing with it and shooting and it was a constant motion activity that appealed to me and still does. So that is part of my story. 

Heather van Werkhooven: Do you remember the dances?

John Zebryk: Yea. (laugh) Kind of unfortunately. Unfortunately in that it was…dancing is not my natural, ah…But I think I went to most of them. Because I was a class officer I was more or less expected to be present. After it was all over…having to get a date and get a corsage and the whole thing, it was a stressful thing. For those of us who were unaccustomed to such things. But we got through it. I can remember some of the dates I had…and girls were kind of strange people to…we innocents, you know the innocents the guys who, how to relate to girls and dances and particularly some of us from the environment where this was not normal or didn’t have older brothers or sisters who kinda helped you through it. 

Heather van Werkhooven: During the school day did the boys spend their time with the boys and the girls spent their time with the girls?

John Zebryk: Yea, I would say generally yes. It’s not as I understand many schools today, where the pairing off is as obvious throughout the day. But there were activities… I remember selling candy here. We used to, part of our class was to purchase candy and selling it. 

There was only eighty-five people. There was no really separate…a little bit only because of the fact that some of the people in the various courses make up groups. But for the most part, my memory is that once were broke away from class and had homeroom and lunch period, I don’t remember…other than guys would , you know, we didn’t know how to talk to girls sometimes, or were afraid to, you know, that kind of feeling.

Heather van Werkhooven: What were you selling candy for? Was it to raise money for the class? What was paid for with the…

John Zebryk: Yea. Well it paid for some of the decorations at the dances and that sort of thing. Boys and girls would share the work load of selling the candy, doing the duty. This room – I tell you, it’s loaded with memories. This building, I think I commented about this, is a living memorial. So much happens here. I remember coming to minstrels here, plays from church groups, town meeting would take place here. This is the basketball area.

My father, my father who, during the war, worked sometimes fourteen, sixteen hours in the paper mill, he used to find a way always to watch my games…football…and I remember in basketball I would see him standing up there. He would come in just as the game would start and he was always there, always there. 

The town meeting still takes place here. Multiple utilization. We were a very frugal community at that time and certainly got a lot of use out of this building and this particular area. 

Heather van Werkhooven: Should we walk around a little bit? 

John Zebryk: Well… yes. I would like to see that. OK.

It smells like in did in 1947. The linseed oil…all the stuff they used to take care of the wood.

Over here, during the war, we had aeronautics class – basic navigation and flight principles.  Of course, part of the dual utilization, classes would have to set up and tear down the chairs, the folding chairs for assembly. One of the physical education classes would go in and set up all that and that was their exercise. 

OK, I dusted off enough memories for now.

I think one winter I worked on Le Grand’s pond, where Le Grands used to be. It was ice cold hard work. These forbearers of ours, they knew what hard work was.

I also worked in a brickyard – Lynch brickyard for one summer. And again, one of the hardest jobs I had. They would make bricks and sundry them, then bake them. But these guys worked there all year round. They knew how to speed up the machines so they, it was kind of like piecework, they’d do eight hours worth of bricks and go home, they speed up the machine and I was carting these bricks in a wheelbarrow down a little plank running – running – back and forth. So you go home in six hours, you know. At the end of my six hours I’d go and go to sleep!

Heather van Werkhooven: So, out of curiosity, what else did you have delivered to your house …you had ice delivered to your house – what else? Milk maybe?

John Zebryk: Oh, definitely milk. Buttermilk I remember. Eggs. Bread, we had a bread delivery. And there was a character in town – Beauti Scott, who was a junk man. Somebody could write a book about him alone. He had a wagon he went around…you know junk. During the war, I used to go around and pick up old bead frames, anything metal and sell it to Beauty for a couple pennies, ‘cause they melt it down for the steel for the war. He was a character.

I took this commercial course when I was a freshman, as I told you, one of the best courses I have taken here among many, a typing course. And, you know, I was kind of the laughing stock of some of my male friends, but with computers and everything going on now, it was one of the…and going off to college, typing was one of the skill that I just think was a great thing for me to have acquired while I was here.

Heather van Werkhooven: So men did not take typing classes then.

John Zebryk: Oh no, no…(laugh)

Remembering South Hadley High School: 1936-56

Student interviewer: Tenzin Dolkar

Spring 2007

Track 2

TD: I’ll be asking questions about your background and after that would you be able to give us a personal tour of the building?

GC: Of the building?

TD: Yea, of your old classrooms or gym or auditorium. Memories 

GC: I think maybe, some of it

TD: Your name is George Charlebois?

GC: Yes.

TD: Were you born around here?

GC: I was born in Holyoke and we moved to South Hadley in 1928 when I was 3 years old. I went to all the schools in South Hadley. Our high school was (here) at that time but I went to the Plains School first year. There was a wooden building with 2 rooms and they were in the process of building the new school, now and in the process of rebuilding and tearing down.

TD: So what graduating year were you?

GC: ’42, 1942. And I graduated and went right into service and every one of the fellows in the class was in the service and several of the women also went in.

TD: So how did you get to high school? Walk? Drive? Bus?

GC: Well, I had to walk, we didn’t’ have cars then. There was only two or three cars in the whole class of the people that came to high school. And they were 1931 little fords. Two or three people had them and that was about it. But we walked. I lived almost up to the Plains School on 202 and we had to walk down here to school about 2 miles. We lived where there’s, where same road cemetery is now and it was only about a ¼ of a mile up to the school or even less, 1/8 of a mile-that was from 1-6, 7-8 go to south Hadley center and for high school we came back down here again. But we did get a bus up to the center cause that was about 5 miles.

TD: Were you ever late to class cause you had to walk to class?

GC: That’s one other reason. Oh, I guess I was. Sure.

TD: Were there detention after school for that?

GC: Ah, not that I can recall. I used to get out early to go to work. I was an usher over at one of the theaters and I used to get out at 1o’clock in the afternoon and go to work. That’s probably why I didn’t get detention.

TD: Have you attended any of the reunions?

GC: Yes, my wife has been involved in arranging them all; in the committee and taking care of all the correspondence and talking to everybody. She’s got her yearbook with her and what she does is if someone in the paper died, she’d mark it. She has what service/ branch they went to. She keeps a complete record of it. We had the 20^th, 25^th I believe it was, and had our 50^th. I don’t know if we had one for 30^th.

TD: There’s a 35^th?

GC: She’s been handling all the correspondence for the reunion all over the country and driving everybody nuts.

TD: You said after school you had work- where did you work again? At a theater?

GC: Victory theater at Holyoke. Right now it’s closed down, trying to raise money to restart . at that time, Victory and the Strands was owned by the same company so I was at the Victory and wasn’t at the other one. Mostly at the Victory.

TD: Was it a movie theater?

GC: Oh yea. I used to enjoy it there. One thing I enjoyed there was 2 siamese twins that used to come, the Gibbs sisters. They were joined at the hip and one was a lot bigger than the other and she was the lead one. They used to have to sit in a special balcony on the edges of the seat and I brought them up the 1^st time and so they asked for e every time after that.

TD: So were you interested in theater, movies?

GC: No, back then, it was hard to get work and they weren’t paying much anyway, 35cents an hour. That was more than when I first started. In the summer I used to work in the gardens-get 15cents an hour. Work all day in the hot sun but of course that was during the Depression too.

TD: Have your children attended the new school?

GC: My daughter came dow here I believe when they built the new high school because the building was decrepit and to get us out they built the new high school. Then the building turned out to be in such good shape they moved 7^th-8^th grade down here. And then went through the same process again and where they wanted to build the 7-8^th grade, and then got them out of here. And then they said they building a ??so-sal?? that we will make town offices out of it. Then I got in, mixed in with the handicap. Massachusetts and the national. I was in the 504 committee. We were going on the ADA act and put an elevator in and that took about 5 years to get that We ran into all kind of snags with that. People didn’t like the idea spending the money you know but we had a few snags in that and it took about five years. But we just come up on the elevator today. You could see where the clock, that was all hallway out there. Then we had to add the addition for the elevator. We had to match all the brick to the bricks that were in the building. Red tape.

TD: did you like high school? Was it a fond memory?

GC: my parents told me that if it took me 20 years I had to graduate! I got through, not record time but no I didn’t stay back or nothing. I wan’t an excellent A student but I still got through with it and graduated. But that’s when parent’s law was law. Not now, now if you crab at the kids, they can turn around and get you arrested. 

TD: so do you have fond memories? Did you skip classes?

GC: no, no I don’t think I ever did. Cuz if I got caught I would get it here and get it when I got home. It wasn’t worth it. I probably took sick days off that I wasn’t really sick on but other than that I can’t think of anything. Not to really stay to go out to play or go do something else you know. There wasn’t much to do back then anyway. Not like today, with the video, cars, and arcades and everything else around. 

TD: with all the video and videogames…problem.now

GC: personally, 10 acre plot and had quite a lot of gardening to do we raised chickens. So I was pretty busy most of the time that I wasn’t in school.

TD: so your family had a farm?

GC: a small farm you know, we raised chickens and uh, quite a lot of chickens. there was one time we had 5000?. First we used to raise them for 8 weeks and sell them by the truckload, for fryers and stuff like that you know. But it was always something to do there. Quite a few gardens. Had a fruit stand out, vegetable stand out. Out on the edge of 202 road. Soon as you run out, you run back and get some more. 

TD: did you, you said you worked after school. Were there other times that you had extracurricular activities? Were you in any clubs or sports?

GC: well, I tried out for football but it was interfering with my schedule at work and plus I got hammered the first day. So I says, ah, it’s not worth it. But as far as the clubs, I didn’t have time for them anyway. I took art and mechanical drawing, general course in school you know. Not the clubs. 

TD: was football the big sport in your school? 

GC: ya, football was but nothing like now. We probably had 2 or 3 people weighing 200 or 300lbs and the rest of us were (tiny little high schoolers). So the funny thing about that was the only time you could hear a bar across your helmet was someone that had glasses. And if you didn’t have glasses, you didn’t get to wear a bar, your face was just out there. And it was leather helmets, nothing like the plastic now so if you got your face stepped on it was cleats hitting ya. Now they got the cages and it protects them a little bit except for when they get in fights and take their hat off and then they get hurt. I enjoyed hockey too. (field hockey?) no, no. ice hockey. (winter?) no we didn’t have it at school, that was, we used to have our own, the gangs. The groups I should say, not gangs. Gangs don’t sound right. We had our own groups. course they said I liked hockey because I had a French name you know. It’s just that lot of French-canadians were hockey players; that’s all they had to do up there in the winter.

TD: So did most of your friends from high school continue to live around the area?

GC: There is/was a quite a few. Well half of them are dead now but 

Tenzin Dolkar

Mr. Charlebois

Track 3:

GC: It’s probably, 25 or 30. I really couldn’t say to figure. My wife probably could but. How many are in the area but, probably 25 or 30. that are still alive and living here. Barely alive probably.

TD: Have you kept in touch with them? Have you over the years..

GC: oh, at the reunion and uh and I am connected with the counsel of aging so we run into a lot of them in the area. Of course, when I retired, I went up to the university and became a master gardener. So I keep in touch with a lot of them. That way they’d call up and ask and talk a lot on the phone. Asking questions, free information you know. 

TD: When was the last time you were in this building? Was it that after graudation, no more?

GC: Oh no! no, I was a town meeting member and we had our meetings here every year, in this room (auditorium). And that was for 30 years. And I came in every year to get my hunting license. 

TD: what was it?

GC: hunting and fishing license. Sports license. Different meetings that I’ve been in. like for the counsel of aging, when you’d have a meeting with the selectmen, you’d go and I was on the board there for a while. Changes a lot though. 

TD: how so?

GC: oh. With all the different, floors they build. We used to play basketball in this room.

TD: the floors were different?

GC: oh yea. It was wooden. 

TD: hardwood?

GC: hardwood floors. And when they moved the school out of here, took the basketball hoops out. They were on the either sides and the center

TD: there’s no trace left

GC: I think they had the windows covered up boards. But I can’t be sure. And the basketball players were short.

TD: now they are so tall.

GC: Now if you are under 6’6” you don’t even stand a chance but 

TD: I was curious, if you don’t mind, did you know your wife in high school?

GC: I knew her during high school. We didn’t really go out dating until graduation night and going ever since. Then when I come back from Europe, I got stationed out in California, we got married in California. This year it will be 63 years in December. 

TD: congratulations, 63 years. That’s great!

GC: it’s funny cuz most people right now, 2 out of 3 or..2 out of 3 get divorced then the other 1/3 don’t get married in the first place. 

TD: yea, I think they call it serial monogamy.

TD: you were talking about taking those general-ed classes that you took in high school. Do you remember that were your favorite?

GC: I used to like art. We had a teacher who was about only 24 years old. And the others were real elderly people.  I mean elderly. We used to call them grandmas in some of them. But I liked art, mechanical drawing. Typing wasn’t bad. If it was a small word, I could do 40 per minute, like ‘is’. I get by. Got passing grades in it, no excellence, but. Then we had history, we had civics. English, that was rough. 

TD: I think it’s still a rough class. 

TD: do you remember any traditions or events that took place in this school? Sometimes you have prep rallies, or the prom.

GC: we used to have basketball, especially if they were in the finals. We used to go up to Amherst, they used to play up there and. They had a good court you know, but none of the regular group should come.? Play games here, if they were so inclined. Prep rally, I can’t remember any of htem. We had a lot of pep, but no rallies. Lot more then than now.

TD: was your class a close-knit class?

GC: it was only about a 100 or so.

TD: 100?

GC: uh. It was a few cliques. Which you find everywhere you go.

TD: what kind of cliques?

GC: well they thought they were better than the rest of us. Or that’s what they thought. But it’s funny though, at some of the reunions you meet some of htem and they have mellowed down enough a lot and realized that they aren’t so special after all. But it takes all kinds of people anyway. [it makes it more interesting I guess] Some of them, boy oh boy you can’t stand them at one time but then you run into them years later [and they have humbled down a little] yea. So ya, pretty good. 

Then of course, with everyone going into the service you always got something to talk about when you come back. Some of them, and the high school, had the veteran’s hall tell our war experiences. I’m with the veteran’s group at the counsel and World War II veterans, and the VFW. And they asked if I would talk. And I said no, I wouldn’t. they were taking the camera and putting me on the camera, and tell your experiences. And I says, I spent 60 years trying to forget it and I am not gonna start talking about it now. Even my wife will tell you I’m not going to talk about it. We were in normandie, Omaha beach on D day and it was 8000 or 9000 casualities that first day. First morning. Just on that one beach. So the old jokes, a guy asks an old timer what marriage was like and he says a day at the beach. Omaha beach on D-day. Well I was there on Omaha beach on D- day and my marriage is nothing like that. Thank god. It wouldn’t be 62 years if it wasn’t. they had about 12 or 15 guys that wanted to talk about it. And a lot of them weren’t in the thick of it, some of them were, but lot of them were talking about what happened at their base and stuff like that you know. One fella there was on a hospital ship and they planted on most of the island when they were invading it and he spoke about some of the things here and he says people say well you didn’t’ see any action and he says I saw more than action, with all the people they were bringing in you know. Matter of fact, after normandie, they come out with the movie, the longest day. It was ten years before I would  even go look at it. Then I don’t think I slept for 2 weeks after that. And then they had another one just recently, few years ago, ‘Saving Private Ryan’. The wife wanted to go see it and I said well you are going to have to go by yourself. It was up in the center, movie theaters up there? 

TD: the south Hadley one?

GC: yea. 

TD: the towers?

GC: yea, the towers. I couldn’t think of it. So she went up and she thought it was good and I says I was there but I don’t want to go. The movies are nothing like the actual events. You get a generals lockroom and he’s arrgh. And stuff like that. There weren’t enough trees for all the generals. We didn’t see any generals, they come in later. I went and watched the Japanese movie, ‘tore! Tore! Tore!’? well that’s there victory…slogan or whatever you call it. They had the kamikaze pilots and all this and stuff like that. I went and saw that. That wasn’t bad. Saw a few on pearl harbor. We’ve got a guy in our group that, he’s in southhampton, he was at pearl harbor and he has quite a few movies, devoted on pearl harbor. [Buruckey?] from south Hampton, you’ve probably read his name. Pearl harbor survivor, they call him you kknow. But he had quite a few actual, well he had army and navy taking pictures, camera and everything. He’s got a lot of htem. He showed some of them some of the ships getting hit.

TD: so what are your thoughts on the new use of the old high school as the town hall? Did you like the shift?

GC: no, it’s alright. I am glad it’s going to use otherwise it would be falling apart if they weren’t maintaining it once in a while. And if they didn’t’ have it here, they would have to have it somewhere else and build a new building. Right now, they are tied up in the golf course. We didn’t get to vote on that. They said that when we put it in, we wouldn’t cost us a penny, that it was going to be self-sufficient and everything else. And they wouldn’t put it on the ballot whether we want it or we didn’t’ want it. Cuz there was a certain little group that, golfers, that did want it. They didn’t want to pay the price up at the orchard, so I guess it was there main reason for putting it in here, hype up the fact that it was going to be a money-maker. Well I don’t’ know how much millions it cost them to built it. It’s five years now and they have lost  ½ a billion every year and that’s not counting what they are paying off on the debt and everything else, we still owe them. It’s going to 20 or 30 years before we get them paid off. For something that’s not going to cost us a penny, and now they want to build a clubhouse. 

Tenzin Dolkar

Mr. Charlebois

Track 4

GC: cuz they are renting two trailers for the clubhouse. And they say well if we build a new clubhouse we are gonna draw a lot more people in. ok, so they are going to spend $750,000 for the clubhouse. Right now they are hiring a consultant to decide how to do it and what to do with it. We are losing ½ million a year as it is why go 700,000 more. I’m glad I’m not in the town meeting member anymore. I get to talking about the way they waste stuff. There’s nothing you can do about it. It’s politic as usual, you watch my back and I’ll watch yours. You vote for what we want, we’ll vote for what you want. You can go as a town meeting member, people can all tell you, they don’t want something, you can go up there and say we’d vote for that. You are representing your whole precinct, and even though they are against it. After 30 years in it, 29 years and I get out, then I was chairperson of the counsel so, made an honorary member to talk about the counsel money, so giving me my 30^th year. I was getting in for 3 year terms. That was plenty long enough to find out what was going on.

TD: can you think of any alternate use for this space.

GC: for this building?

TD: other than a townhall?

GC: no, not really. I couldn’t figure what they could possibly put in here. The building is pretty well occupied well except this one particular room. Unless they started bingo or something. It would have to be in this room here because if they took any of the other office space they would have to build a new building for that you know. 

TD: in my town, the old high school has been turned into a recreational center where kids can go after school.

GC: we’ve got two in town. St. Patrick’s church over here on main street, further over, they have got a recreation building. A social center, they call it. St. Teresa’s is half way up to the college. they build one bigger than the churches’. Why they need two in town, I don’t know. Now they are talking about merging the two churches into one. 

TD: how would they do that? Aren’t they in different locations?

GC: well, St.Patricks got a bigger following than St. Teresa’s and maybe have all the people from St. Teresa’s come down here. Otherwise you got to have a mass down here and mass up there because there’s a shortage. So I don’t know what they are going to do there. You see in the paper they are hashing it all over. I think all of it happened with all the scandals that went through with the priest. I think that lot of the money went to pay some of the debts owed. Plus when the priest would get kicked out, they continued to support him. They paid him so much living expense and everything and they are stopping that now.  Cuz they are starting to get tight on money you know. You can’t keep paying lawsuit out.

TD: during your high school year, did the town have a recreational center?

GC: not really. I don’t think we had exercise yet. If you wanted exercise, you go after school and get into the sport. But not during school. We had our classes, were pretty well lined up, and if you had two free hours in a day you had a study period which helped, we didn’t have to carry our backpack like the kids do now I mean. 

TD: we do have studyhalls. 

GC: I’m not talking about you , I’m talking about the high school kids. You see them walking away with the backpacks. But we had the study periods and a lot of times our study period would be behind another class. I had one where I had civics and the next class was a study period, I just moved from the front rows to the back rows. Same room you know. I got civics twice in a row actually. I got it when I was there and then listening to him. But I can’t remember activities like gym or anything like that. 

I did play in a band when I was here. [marching band?] ya, it was a marching band. Musical band about a stage here. [what did you play?] drums.  Then I got in the navy drum bugle corp when I was in the electrical school out in Detroit, great Michigan. That wasn’t too good because they had 11 mile marches. And by the time you get done, your legs were falling off, bouncing. Oh we used to go to march 11, 5 miles and go to the social at the women who were running you know. And they would have a dance there. Marching 5 miles and if you didn’t get a dance anyway; I couldn’t dance anyway. Two left feet. So when you get done, you march back again. I think they give us cookies or soda or something. But that was our political contribution to bond raising. War bonds. 

TD: my little sister marches on independence day..

GC: ya that’s what they do here, memorial day and flag day and St. Patrick’s day. That’s a sweet times. Here they for memorial day go to cemeteries. There’s one over here couple of streets over, there’s one on Lymans street, notre dame, and there’s a bole(?) cemetery behind it. And they got one up at the center, in the evergreen. Go down Hadley street, and you got the evergreen there. Go there and march in. play a song or something. Then they come down to the town hall here, with the monuments out front, we have the service. Back then, we didn’t have uniforms, we had a hat. Just a hat. It wasn’t like the big hats they got now, it was like a train conductor’s hat and it had SHHS on it; south Hadley high shool. The only thing we had on were a pair of dark pants and a white shirt. The girls had a dark skirt and a white blouse. Now I suppose they are all in overalls or shorts or whatever. Well we had, well it wasn’t a dress code, but it was expected you came to school neat. My god, you see them now with their pants with big cuffs on them, 6 sizes too large and dragging on the ground and oh boy. [they can’t walk very fast with that]

But either that or short shorts. 

TD: did you work 7 days a week?

GC: you mean when I was in school?

TD: yes, when you were in school.

GC: oh no, it was probably 4 or 5 days and on the weekend I could have the night shifts. I had time off too and I can’t remember what the schedule were. 

TD: during your free time, did you hang out with your friends?

GC: well when I wasn’t in the garden, or doing another work, yea. We used to find time for. Figting? In the winter and skiing, skating and summertime we’d be swimming. We had, at 202, a hillside beach and it cost a nickel to go swimming if you were, if they knew you, otherwise it was a dime. So if we had free time we would go down there and swim. Everything was walking or bicycle. 

TD: was the college inn up during your high school years?

GC: oh yes. Oh ya. Glessmans was up there, a drug store, right alongside college inn. People used to go in there and coca cola and stuff where they put the syrup in, where they put the fizzy water in. nothing out of the bottle you know. 

TD: so you had your regular classes for the school day, were there any social gathering place?

GC: we had to travel from room to room to different classes. The art was in the cellar. French was on the second floor. Civics was on the second floor. History was on this floor. Typing and English I believe were on this floor. But they got office, office space made out of them now. I can’t remember too much. 

TD: how about lunch hours? Cafeteria?

GC: well we didn’t have a cafeteria. We used to bring our lunches or some of them used to run over to a little store over here, next to where the police station is, a little newsroom. They sold candy and we did so much walking that nobody ever got fat. Well, a few did. Mostly didn’t. now with all the stuff they are eating 

Tenzin Dolkar

Mr. Charlebois

Track 5

GC: everyone to go you know. 

TD: wait, so if you didn’t have a cafeteria, did you eat in classes? For lunch hours or..

GC: ohh, see that I think we ate in our class. I’m not positive. Probably on the front step. I can’t remember. Well I know that it’s nothing like what they have nowadays. 

TD: so did they have lockers as well? In school so that you wouldn’t have to take your backpack? No lockers? [No] everything on your back?

GC: well, under your arm. The backpacks weren’t popular then. You see the people walking with arm full of books. With the study periods you are able to get your, some of your, homework done. You know. I used to get most of mine done. Maybe it wasn’t perfect but it got done anyway. So I’d know little something about what to talk about the next day. 

–Walking Tour—

TD: so did you have dances in this room? School dances?

GC: chairs, well they had wooden chairs. Back then.

TD: was it separated. The boys and the girls section?

GC: no, I don’t think so. 

TD: everyone got on the floor?

GC: they trusted us. 

TD: cuz we still have chaperones at our school. 

GC: lot of these were classrooms. That over there (105?) was the principal’s office. 

TD: principal’s office? Have you been in there?

GC: I knew where it was…this is more or less the same upstairs. Different classrooms. They made some changes…This used to be the typing room. I remember that…I don’t remember what was over here. 

TD: do you remember anything down this hall?

GC: there were some rooms in the end. You got the ladies room over here, that was always here. This one I don’t know. This one here used to be a classroom. I can’t remember what was in it. 

TD: are these pictures from reunions?

GC: some of the different politicians that were here. I don’t think I am in any of them. 

TD: looks like a snowstorm here.

GC: yep, got a tractor with a scoop on it. They are taking the snow banks and dumping them in the trucks. 

TD: did you have snowdays? When you had school off?

GC: very few. 

TD: you had to walk through snows to get to your classes?

GC: it didn’t bother us so much. We were used to it you know. By grandkids were down in Charlotte and once they get 2 inches of snow they close down the shops and I couldn’t believe it. They have two inches of snow in the morning and in the afternoon they  have nothing. My daughter and son-in-law lived in Ohio, before they were down there they were used to the weather coming down from Lake Erie, ice and snow and everything else. So they used to call him up to drive people to his office. He was a lawyer down there. They couldn’t get to work, they were afraid to drive, so they just called him up, pick so and so up….This little courtyard here, I don’t remember what they ever did with it.

TD: was it different?

GC: I think what it probably was is an addition on it or something. They probably extended that building. The bricks look different over here than over there. 

TD: did students hang out in the courtyard?

GC: no. we weren’t courting people. No. I can’t remember anything being in here….There were some more classrooms down in the end. 

TD: to get from classroom to classroom, did you have to have hall passes?

GC: no. if you didn’t show up, the teacher knew it. You’d be absent you know….I worked on getting all these handicapped after we finished with the elevator. We did the men’s room and uh the ladies’ room. We had to drop all the coolers down. [too much background noise] …reach here, got the buttons here to press. TD: I’m sure you also had water fountains in your…

GC: nothing like these. They were porcelain with a faucet on it. [passerby-greetings]

GC: he’s one of our legislators. (Cibeck??) fella that just went, (Cibeck?)

This is the (accessor’s) office right here. It was a big room but they portioned it off and made small compartments in there. They put the wall across here. More or less, it was one big class you know. One big room I mean. 

TD: were the school desk one long bench and chairs? Or was it separate?

GC: individual. 

TD: did you have the open-case desk, where you could put your books?

GC: you did but you had to change your classes so many times you couldn’t leave anything. They had to (lift up?) and they had (ink wells) in there. About that time you were coming out with fountain pen. Now it’s all ball-point. 

TD: the mechanical pencils. 

[meet up w/ the Mrs. Charlebois and interviewer]

Mrs. Charlebois: that’s the will book. Where I told you George was the periscope so he could keep an eye on the people he was letting sneak into the movies. 

GC: I was keeping my eye on the manager not the people. 

Mrs.: oh yea. The periscope. Yea. 

[talk about chaperones at dance]

[other interviewers- about field trips]

TD: so anything else you remember from high school?

GC: not really. Probably this afternoon, I’ll think of half a dozen of things. But I won’t call you. 

TD: you can if you want. I don’t mind. You said that you had a favorite teacher. The art teacher. Was it a he or a she? I don’t remember.

GC: she was the youngest one here I think . Because all the others were pretty elderly. Some are very elderly. But she was, she stood out cuz she was so much younger. She was only, you know, 8 or 9 years older than us. The others were 40 or 50 years older. 

TD: do you remember her name?

GC: I think it might have been Roberts. But I wouldn’t say for sure. She was art and I believe she had mechanical drawing. 1 year I took, I mean, 2 years I took mechanical drawing but I took 4 years of art.